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Walk like an Egyptian … Marry like an Egyptian

Back in 2007, I came across the inspiring blog of a girl named Ghawayesh who says the she is “an Egyptian living in Europe but her heart stayed back home.” She explained to her visitors the meaning of Ghawayesh saying:

“Ghawayesh means bracelets. In my context it symbolizes the cuffs of my culture. I don't know if I like them or hate them.”

One particular post about Egyptian women getting married to foreign men caught my attention.

In her post about The Whores, Ghawayesh starts by saying:

“Times are changing and many ‘respected’ families have come to accept the fact that their daughters can make their own choices of choosing to marry whoever they want, if they EVER CHOOSE to marry, which is also a new trend in Egypt.”

She then explains an interesting fact about the psyche of Egyptian males who falsely believe

“that they are superior to males of other nationalities. When an Egyptian male opts for a foreign wife, then he's a winner and a stud and God's gift to her and she should be so thankful for his eternal tantrums and malignant ego. And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!”

Ghawayesh points out how double standards apply to the reversed scenario:

“Once an Egyptian woman chooses for a foreign husband, then she's a whore and her family is low class and she has done it only because she failed to win the lottery of marrying a super Egyptian man, so the poor soul opted for a second best who sadly happens to love her and understand her and respect her and not lie to her and actually goes as far as flossing his teeth for her!”

The witty blogger takes her analysis to the next level and examines the religious/legal prerequisites. She notes:

“If a non-Muslim foreign man decides to marry a Muslim Egyptian woman, he will have to convert first. But converts will always be accused of being untrue or incomplete Muslims. Be it for matrimonial purposes or for otherwise, a convert is never good enough for the ‘true Arab Muslims.’ Like Islam is a genetic trait or something. Only God knows that most of those born-Muslims are God's lowest rank hypocrites, and that God is the true judge for what's in our heart.”

Finally she moves on to advise non-Muslim men who wish to marry Muslim Egyptian women saying:

1- Marrying an Egyptian Muslim woman is not easy. You are aware that you are making a sacrifice and a commitment for life, aren't you? You have to understand what it means to convert before you do. I have sadly seen how several women and men who converted for their summer flings and later on ended up in an identity crisis and several conflicts about their children's affiliation. Let alone those stories/nightmares of kidnapping children and disappearing without a trace.

I don't know how strict your partner is, but you might have fights over your having an alcoholic drink or about the origins of a funny looking sandwich that could say oink if it was alive. You could get offended and take it personally that she doesn't want you to kiss her sometimes for you don't know that she has just washed and on the way to pray and is supposed to stay ‘unsullied’ until she does her prayer. Those small misinterpretations can create lots of tension if you're not ready for them.

2- The financial issues are something typical of our culture. The real reason why families ask for lots of money and a house for the bride, is simply the fact that men can be untrustworthy ‘if taken only at face value,’ and when they make financial commitments, they become more serious.

You can sit with her dad and explain to him what you have, and that you will be willing to offer her the best you can afford, and yes, everything in Egypt is negotiable, even this issue! And if they turn you down because you can't afford some bricks in Cairo where cockroaches will have a blast while you're gone most of the year, then save yourself the trouble and let them cry over their lost roaches.

3- You have the right to wonder about female circumcision. Statistics say that 97% of the Egyptian women are circumcised. I am an Egyptian woman who studied Medicine and do not know of any woman in my family who was, but did see many circumcised women while I was practicing medicine in Egypt. Circumcision comes with certain social classes and you have every right to know whether your future wife is circumcised or not and in what way this might have affected her psychology.

Unfortunately the same question applies to you! There is a misunderstanding that circumcision of males is an Islamic obligation, which is not. It is mandatory in Judaism and strongly recommended FOR MALES ONLY in Islam, but you won't go to hell if you kept some foreskin and kept it clean.

You have to be ready for such a personal question from your partner, or even her dad, and I think they would appreciate a serious answer about your extra skin situation!

4- Be ready for racist behavior in Egypt. Your wife will be insulted for marrying you. She will be called a prostitute and will be asked on which street corner of which resort you had picked her up. They will say oh she married a foreign because she was too old to marry an Egyptian, the poor thing! Yeah better than being alone for the rest of her life!

Maybe you will not be told this to your face, but you also need to know that some Egyptians would give you the best treatment and call you their ‘best friend’ after having known you for 5 minutes, and once you turn your back they will stab you with the biggest virtual knife there is.

Egyptians have a long way to go before they learn to live and let live. Please beware of that.

Today, I ran into a very special Wandering Scarab, who says that she is “one more Egyptian living in Canada”. Like Ghawayesh, she is an Egyptian girl who chose to get married to a foreigner.

In her post about the Egyptian system for the new ID card, the Wandering Scarab shares with us her adventure in the Land of the Pharaohs to get her ID.

“As usual, upon my visit to Egypt, my parents explained to me the necessity of having a social number even though I didn't think I needed it as I do not intend to ever live in Egypt. But they insisted I will need it when the time comes for inheritance and what not after they pass away. So off we went to apply.”

“Later that day I picked up the application to determine what I needed to submit to get the damn social number that my parents think is very important. Besides my full name, address, date of birth, and place of birth the application also required my occupational status, marital status, and educational status. So I inquired as to how I can go about providing all that information given the fact that I live and work elsewhere.”

People helped her with the following advice to provide for the needed information:

“Occupational Status
I must obtain a certificate of employment from my employer, which includes the address and name of my employer in Canada and have it officially translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy in Cairo.

Educational Status
I must obtain a certificate from my university that proves I graduated with a Bachelor's degree also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.

Marital Status
I must obtain a marriage certificate valid in Egypt also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.

So far it was all possible although it was a big feat. One wrinkle; because my husband is Canadian (a foreigner) we have to submit more information. In order for the authorities in Egypt to give us an Egyptian marriage certificate equivalent to our Canadian one, my husband would have to obtain a certificate of employment from his employer that details not only his name and address, but also his age, income, and social insurance number, oh and yeah, also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.

In addition, because I am Muslim, my husband has to obtain a “Certificate of Embracing the Islamic Faith” from Al-Azhar, (yeah yeah also translated and notarized). Without the certificate from Al-Azhar we could not get the certificate of marriage. But my dear husband was persuaded to join the madness and agreed to go to Al-Azhar and indeed got the little piece of paper that said he is a good little Muslim.

None of that stuff upset me. The thing that bothered me most is the fact that upon clarification, I learned that if I was an Egyptian male, none of that applied even if my wife was a foreigner. I insisted that I will not take part in anything that devalues and dehumanizes women like that, contrary to my parents advice.”

The infuriated Wandering Scarab hit the kind of brick walls that we – Egyptians – face everyday whenever we need a license, passport, ID, or a replacement for any document or certificate we once had.

How did the story end?

“Two days later I had my Egyptian social number. My parents had taken the easy way out. As far as the Egyptian government is concerned I am single (never married), did not receive education (illiterate), and unemployed (complete and utter loser).”

87 comments

  • I am really enjoying reading your posts. So many different experiences of womanhood!

  • Thanks a lot Solana … You will love the other post that Amira is approving now:)

    • Carolina Derezonch

      I also am in a relationship with an Egyptian man for 8 years now. Him living in Europe and me in America.
      I have no desire to get married ever but would live with him. He keeps saying that he will move here and that if we are to live together, we must be married since Allah is watching him, us :). He does not ask me to convert and I will not either.
      So, am afraid of the Egyptian laws. Found a link today = http://members.cox.net/ahmedheissa/mardivor.htm and this talks about the man who can keep the wife’s passport, etc. This is of course for an Egyptian woman married to an Egyptian man. But I am concerned of the rights as a foreigner if we were to married and go visit the family. Don’t want to be stucked out there.
      Anyone knows the laws out there ? Read on a gvt website that we must be very careful when marrying certain nationalities. Sometimes, we become properties of men and in certain cases, we might have to pay taxes in a country we never even resided.
      Anyone knows about this ?
      Thanks

  • Meryt

    I,also, am an Egyptian woman who married a non-Egyptian. Unlike the cases stated above, we did not have to face the religion hurdle, as we are both Christians. There are 14 different nationalities intermarried with members of my family, however, all met & got married abroad. Mine was the only case where both met & married in Cairo…at the time of the so called “Jihan’s Law”! Another requirement then was also the “7osn seer wa selouk”, and that the age difference between us does not exceed 25 years. Most of these certificates are non-existent in my husband’s country. Luckily, the local mayor was a good sport & had all certificates drawn & notarized. Once the Egyptian Government finished playing the strict mother-in-law to my husband, it turned on me. At that time, a married woman may not leave the country without her husband’s written permission, being a good chattel & all! Asking my husband to sign such a paper would have brought in a demeaning aspect to our relationship, something which we both refused. I regarded it as an insult. I had to drop my Egyptian passport. When my children were born, I had to take my 1 year old toddler to the police station to declare the presence of this khawaga within a week of our arrival. My old passports were stamped with “the mother may stay for up to 6 months ( of egyptian origin), the child must leave within a month”!!! There were times when the Egyptian Embassy where we live held ‘men only’ celebrations of the national feast on 23 July. My husband goes, the ‘hareem’ stay home, even if they are the Egyptian ones! Needless to say, non of my male cousins who also married non-Egyptians had to go through any of that, after all they are males!

  • patsy de boeck

    what papers as a european woman, christian, do you need to marry a christian egyptian man in the belgium embassy in egypt

  • Truth7

    Do the consequences apply to a reverse situation(foreigner-wife marrying an Egyptian man)? Well, his mother has passed on, and his father is like 80 years old.

    He said he will test the reaction of his older brothers on our plans to get married.

    • kathleen

      And what was his brothers reaction? I am curious because i also am very much interested in an egyptian man.

  • Joh

    Excellent post. Very enligtening.

    Unfortunately, his seems to exist in most cultures, even European cultures. Just that in some, like yours there is a few more hurdles and sadly the hurdles are all against the female.
    But still an excellent post. Will think twice the next time a beautiful egyptian girl smiles at me—-I actually adore them.

  • Penelope

    I am a 34y.o. Australian born from Northern European Lutheran parents, living in Adelaide, South Australia. I have been raised & believe in the christian faith. I have a 7y.o.son from a previous relationship. His father left because he was unable to be faithful & was violent towards me. Couldnt control his anger. I have been reading the meaning of the holy Qur’an by Abdullah Yusuf’Ali to understand my boyfriends beliefs. My boyfriend is Egyptian living in Cairo & is Muslim. I am waiting for Ahmed, he is the most beautiful man I have ever meet. In two years of knowing him I have not wanted another man. Will I need to convert to Muslim to marry him & how does a christian become a Muslim in Adelaide. Please, can you refer me to a Muslim society in Adelaide? I am not a career woman. I was raised with my grandsparents values. Women stay home, clean, cook & look after their man & their children. I know we have choices. I chose to follow the guidelines my grandparents set out for me. How can I best please my Muslim man? We have not met in person. We’ll meet in person soon. He is coming to Adelaide to meet me. We met on the interenet, two years ago. We chat almost every day. He wants me to go back to Egypt with him with my son. He said that my son is his because he came from me & I am his. Can this work or should I just tell him not to come & to stay in Egypt? I don’t want to hurt or upset Ahmed or his family.

  • Truth7

    Hi Penelope,
    You sound like me, six months ago when I entered into a relationship with an Egyptian man.
    I’d met him there, following that, we talked every day on the phone or Internet and I’ve flown back to see him again once more.
    Basically, you got a better deal than me, because he is flying over to Australia to see you, instead of you having to fly over. (The airfare to Egypt is expensive, and if you continue this long distance, quite a bit of money could be involved.)
    There are a few things you should know about some Egyptian men:
    1 They are usually too good to be true
    2 They are usually married by 30 years of age
    3 The average salary of an Egyptian is US$200. Unless the person belongs to an upper class family; the rich are rich in Egypt, the poor are poor.
    If Ahmed wants to go over to Australia to see you, let him, as long as you keep your relationship safe. This has to take off or end somehow, and the only way is that you see each other.
    I don’t think you need to convert to Islam in an Egyptian marriage.
    And really, if I were you, Australia being such a beautiful country, I wouldn’t trade living in Australia with Egypt or anywhere else for that matter.

  • Penelope

    Thank you very much for your reply. Ahmed is in fact 23years old & wants to live here with me. He is a civil engineer & owns his own gymnasium. He has asked me to go there to meet his family. He wants to marry & relocate here. He has been involved in car racing & his family is rich. Also, says he likes to pay for things himself. He is very lovely & i have not met another man who is a protective as he is. I will keep you posted. On the progress & outcome of this relationship. Again, thank you. I have very few people to discuss this with. My friends think if i go there then i will not come back. They think that i’m the sort of girl that will get taken. Please assure me that it’s not really possible? I think not. Have a lovely day. Cheers

    • Karen

      I too have just fallen in love with an egyptian man. He is everything I have ever wanted or needed. My freinds tell me he just wants to move to australia, but he would prefer me to live in egypt but I told him I could not do that. Im in the process of divorcing so if he wants a quick wedding and move here he knows thats not possible for at least 2 years. so I think his feelings are real. My whole point is that the only thing I can loose from this love is my heart which can mend over time so im going to enjoy it while it lasts…. and who knows that could be til I die… would love to chat to see how your relationship turned out

  • […] She explained to her visitors the meaning of Ghawayesh saying: ???Ghawayesh means bracelets.http://globalvoicesonline.org/2008/06/13/walk-like-an-egyptian-marry-like-an-egyptian/America: At the edge of history once again? Boston GlobeOne day this past January, Mary Kim Titla’s […]

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