Frei Betto, Brazilian writer, Dominican friar, and political activist. Image created by Global Voices on Canva Pro. Photo by ChichaFuerte on Flickr (CC BY-SA 2.0)

At 81 years old, Carlos Alberto Libânio Christo keeps writing. Better known as Frei Betto, a Dominican friar and one of the exponents of liberation theology in Brazil, he has authored an extensive list of books and articles.

In his 20s, he was arrested and tortured by the military dictatorship (1964–1985). This period became a theme of some of his books, such as “Blood Baptism” (“Batismo de Sangue,” 1983), where he shares what Friar Tito de Alencar Lima, his colleague and friend, went through in prison that led him to commit suicide a few years later.

Frei Betto was also an important actor in a key program during President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva’s first term in office: Fome Zero (Zero Hunger). At the time, in 2003, within a population of 176 million people, Brazil had an estimated 50 million people facing hunger. More than that, it was a historical and rooted issue in the country, one that he follows now, as it is used as a weapon of war against the civilian population in Gaza.

In 2014, he was one of the writers and intellectuals who signed a manifesto asking to stop the massacre in Gaza. Last year, a decade later, he wrote that it was hard to name what Israel was doing in the region, and the complicity of Western and Arab countries. “If the 20th century had as a mark the before and after Auschwitz, this beginning of the 21st century will have the before and after Gaza.” This is one of the issues he discusses with Global Voices in the following interview:

Global Voices (GV): You were an important actor on “Zero Hunger” (“Fome Zero”), a program created during Lula da Silva’s first term, focusing on eradicating the historical problem of hunger in Brazil. In an article you published soon after the program’s launch, you wrote: ‘Hunger is yesterday,’ said Gabriela Mistral. ‘And it cannot wait,’ added Betinho.” What do these sentences mean to someone who works with this reality? 

Frei Betto (FB): Primeiro devemos comemorar o fato de Lula ter retirado o Brasil, pela segunda vez, do Mapa da Fome da ONU. A primeira, em 2004. Mas por descaso do governo golpista de Michel Temer (2016-2018), nosso país retornou a ele.

A fome é um dos mais graves atentados aos direitos humanos. Como vemos hoje em Gaza, onde o atual governo de Israel promove um genocídio por armas e privação de alimentos. É um escândalo a União Europeia desembolsar este ano 800 bilhões de euros com armas e não destinar quase nada ao combate à fome no mundo. São quase 800 milhões de pessoas sobrevivendo em desnutrição crônica.

Frei Betto (FB): First of all, we should celebrate the fact that Lula took Brazil out of the United Nations’ Hunger Map for the second time. The first one was in 2004. But for neglect of the coup-government of Michel Temer (2016–2018), our country went back to it.

Hunger is one of the most grievous attacks on human rights. As we see today in Gaza, where the current government of Israel promotes a genocide using weapons and food deprivation. It’s a scandal that the European Union has disbursed 800 billion euro in arms this year and allocate next to nothing to fight world hunger. There are almost 800 million people worldwide facing chronic malnutrition.

GV: Last July, over 100 international organizations reported the famine scenario in Gaza. Pictures of malnourished people in Palestine illustrated front pages worldwide. How do you see this issue in this context?

FB: No mundo animal, não há de ser mais cruel do que o humano. Nenhum outro animal tortura seu semelhante. Nenhum se compraz em ver o outro faminto. Este é um crime de lesa-humanidade e deveria ser condenado pelo Tribunal de Haia. Não se pode chamar de civilização um período em que os países mais ricos gastam mais com armas, para matar, do que com iniciativas para salvar vidas.

FB: In the animal world, there is nothing more cruel than the human being. No other animal tortures its kind. No other animal pleases to see the other in famine. This is a crime against humanity and it should be condemned by the International Court of Justice in The Hague. You cannot call civilization a period of time when the wealthiest countries are spending more with weapons to kill than with initiatives that would save lives.

GV: In an article published last year, you called what happens in Gaza a genocide, saying: “If the 20th century had as its mark before and after Auschwitz, this beginning of the 21st century will have before and after Gaza.” There is still resistance in naming it a genocide from some outlets and governments; on the other hand, there are people claiming this as the most documented genocide in History. Why do you consider it as such? 

FB: Na Flip (Festa Literária de Paraty, Rio de Janeiro) deste ano, o escritor judeu Ilan Pappé declarou que o governo de Israel já jogou mais bombas sobre Gaza do que os aliados sobre a Alemanha nazista! A população de Gaza sempre viveu em um campo de concentração a céu aberto. Me horroriza ver com as potências europeias, que tanto alardeiam defender os direitos humanos, silenciam sobre o terror sionista sobre os palestinenses em Gaza e na Cisjordânia. Estamos ainda longe de um mundo verdadeiramente humano.

FB: At this year’s Flip (Paraty’s Literary Festival, in Rio de Janeiro state), Jewish writer Ilan Pappé stated that the government of Israel already dropped more bombs in Gaza than the Allies over Nazi Germany! Gaza’s population has always lived in an open sky concentration camp. I’m horrified at how European power states, that are so loud about defending human rights, are silent over the Zionist terror over Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. We are still far away from a truly human world.

GV: What do you think might happen in this “after Gaza?”

FB: A desmoralização do Estado sionista de Israel e um número cada vez maior de países defendendo o direito à criação do Estado Palestino.

FB: The demoralization of the Zionist State of Israel and a growing number of countries defending the right of creating a Palestinian State.

GV: What are the paths to the end of the war at this moment?

FB: O caminho mais rápido seria os EUA retirarem seu apoio a Israel. Mas isso é improvável com o ultradireitista Trump ocupando a Casa Branca. Tomara que países da União Europeia comecem a se afastar e condenar Israel. E admitirem a criação do Estado Palestino.

FB: The fastest one would be the United States withdrawing their support to Israel. But this is very unlikely with the ultra-rightist Donald Trump at the White House. I hope that European Union countries start to distance themselves and condemn Israel. And to acknowledge the creation of a Palestinian State.

GV: This year marks the 40th anniversary of your most well-known book internationally, “Fidel and religion” (1985), in which you interviewed the then-Cuban president, Fidel Castro. Your conversation led to changes in the Communist Party statute and the Cuban Constitution. How do you see this relationship between religion and politics in Brazil today?

FB: Além o livro “Fidel e a Religião”, narro meu trabalho em países socialistas, ao longo de 33 anos, em “Paraíso Perdido — viagens ao mundo socialista.” Quanto à relação religião e política a sabedoria consiste em não confessionalizar o Estado e nem partidarizar as religiões. A religião é o mais abrangente sistema de sentido já criado pelo ser humano. A direita sempre soube explorá-lo em prol de seus privilégios e de suas ambições. A esquerda cometeu o equívoco de não reconhecer na religião o substrato essencial da cultura popular. Embora devamos preservar a separação Igreja e Estado, a laicidade de nossas instituições públicas, na vida pessoal as duas dimensões – religião e política — se mesclam e se complementam.

FB: Besides “Fidel and religion,” I talk about my 33 years of work in socialist countries in “Paradise Lost — Travels to the Socialist World.” As for the relationship between religion and politics, the wisdom consists in not making the State confessional and not politicizing religions. Religion is the most wholesome system of sense ever created by human beings. The right always knew how to exploit it favoring its privileges and ambitions. The left made the mistake of not acknowledging in religion the essential social substrate for popular culture. Even though we must preserve the separation between the Church and the State, the secularism of our public institutions, in our private lives both dimensions  — religion and politics — do mix up and are complementary to each other.

GV: As someone who wrote about it and followed the political context in Cuba, how do you evaluate the US tariff war by Donald Trump against Brazil, and the stance taken by Lula’s government?

FB: Trump fez um favor ao Lula ao intervir tão agressivamente no Brasil. Alavancou Lula para um quarto mandato e rachou a direita, agora em guerra intestina. Na hora em que o tarifaço mexer com o bolso do consumidor estadunidense, Trump talvez tome consciência de seu erro.

FB: Trump did Lula a favor in intervening so aggressively in Brazil. It leveraged Lula to a fourth term and cracked the right, that is now in an internal war. Once the tariffs touch the U.S. consumers’ pockets, Trump might realise his mistake.

GV: During the military dictatorship in Brazil, you were arrested, submitted to torture and witnessed the same with people close to you. How does it feel when someone says 2025 Brazil is a dictatorship and that there is no free speech?

FB: Vivemos numa democracia, embora imperfeita. Bem que Bolsonaro e seus súditos quiseram reeditar a ditadura no Brasil. E agora devem pagar por isso.
Não há nenhuma falta de liberdade de expressão em nosso país. Há, sim, abusos, facilitados pelas big techs. Por isso é urgente nosso Judiciário estabelecer a regulação das redes digitais. Elas não têm direito de atuarem como trincheiras de mentiras e ofensas, impunemente.

FB: We live in a democracy, although an imperfect one. Bolsonaro and his subjects tried to re-edit the dictatorship in Brazil. And now they must pay for it. There is no lack of freedom of expression in our country. There are, indeed, abuses, facilitated by big techs. That is why it is urgent that our judiciary establishes regulation for digital networks. They don’t have the right to act as trenches for lies and offenses, unpunished.

GV: A criticism made in Brazil is that, compared to the post-dictatorship period of other neighbors, such as Argentina and Uruguay, there was a lack of transitional justice and policies of memory. How do you see this matter? Is there a direct consequence of the ascension of the far-right and the new coup attempt in 2023?

FB: Grave erro do Brasil foi não ter apurado, processado e condenado todos aqueles que cometeram crimes contra os direitos humanos ao longo de 21 anos de ditadura militar, ao contrário do que fizeram Argentina, Uruguai e Chile, que souberam separar o joio do trigo. Felizmente, pela primeira vez militares estão sendo punidos pela tentativa de golpe de 8 de janeiro de 2023. A ação enérgica do STF tem esvaziado o bolsonarismo. Suas manifestações públicas recentes contam com cada vez menos participantes.

FB: It was a serious mistake that Brazil didn’t investigate, process and convict all those who committed crimes against human rights throughout the 21 years that the military dictatorship lasted, different from what was done in Argentina, Uruguay and Chile, countries that knew how to separate the chaff from the wheat. Fortunately, for the first time we have military officials being punished for the coup attempt in January, 8, 2023. The Supreme Court’s energetic action has emptied “bolsonarismo.” Their public protests have fewer people joining each time.

GV: What is the urgent matter for Brazil in 2025?

FB: Promover a demarcação de terras indígenas e quilombolas, a reforma agrária, e se preparar para eleger, em 2026, um Congresso de maioria progressista.

FB: To promote Indigenous and “quilombola” (African descent people) land demarcation, agrarian reform and prepare to elect, in 2026, a Congress with a progressive majority.