Podcast: Olek Shyn, Korean–Ukrainian, on the complex history of his ethnic and national identities

Image made by Ameya Nagarajan for Global Voices on Canva Pro.

“Where Are You REALLY From?” is a new podcast series from Global Voices that emerged from a panel at the December 2024 Global Voices summit in Nepal, where members of the Global Voices community shared their experiences of dealing with other people's perceptions about their diverse and complex origin stories. In each episode, we invite our guests to reflect on the assumptions that lie behind the question, “But where are you really from?” and how they respond.

The podcast is hosted by Akwe Amosu, who works in the human rights sector after an earlier career in journalism and is also a coach and a poet. She is a co-chair of the Global Voices board.

The transcript of this episode has been edited for clarity.

Akwe Amosu (AA): Hello and welcome to “Where Are You Really From?,” a podcast that explores identities. I'm Akwe Amosu and my guest today is Olek Shyn. Hey, Olek.

Olek Shyn (OS): Hi, Akwe. It's a pleasure to talk to you.

AA: Why do people ask you that question?

OS: I think it's because most of the time people find me in circumstances that don't really match how I look, or what I'm talking about, or the language I speak. Because I'm Korean–Ukrainian, I was born in Central Asia, in Uzbekistan, in the area of the former Soviet Union, where we had a Korean diaspora like myself. But we are very different from what people perceive as Korean people today, which is South Koreans or North Koreans. So yeah, as a Korean–Ukrainian, I'm always in those circumstances, like even in the Ukrainian activist circles, where people do not naturally expect me to be Ukrainian. And then, of course, when I'm in Ukraine, people don't really expect me to be Ukrainian either because I look Korean. I mean, both my parents are ethnically Korean. But then in Korea or in East Asia, people will be like, oh, so you are Ukrainian because culturally and passport-wise, I'm more from the Eastern European kind of upbringing. So yeah, people do tend to ask that question a lot.

AA: And what is your reaction when they ask you?

OS: Well, it really depends. I mean, most of the time I treat this question as a sign of friendliness. You know, people are welcoming a conversation, and they want to learn about me. But of course, there are cases when I feel like the intention behind that question is rather to understand everything in simple terms. People want to hear a one-word or two-word answer, which is the country name. And then, of course, if I feel like I can sense that intention or any other intention, I usually adjust my answer. So if I feel like they're friendly, I give them a longer answer and we continue. And I might go as far as one hundred years ago, telling them about the history of my people, the great resettlement, you know, the migration, the oppression. Or if I feel like these people just want a quick label, then I just give it to them. I say, I'm from Ukraine, and that's it. And I leave it to them to assume what kind of Ukrainian I am.

AA: But does the question make you feel uncomfortable?

OS: It actually does in certain circumstances, but not always, not necessarily. I feel like because I spent most of my time outside of Ukraine, when I talk to people of very diverse backgrounds, I give people the benefit of the doubt. And I always treat this as a welcoming question, and I always say, well, I'm from Ukraine. And then I just look at their faces, and some of them do show that they're confused. In which case, of course, I give it to them and I explain. But in some circumstances, usually it's Ukrainian circles, I assume that people ask that because they see me as an Other. So in that case, of course, I would be a little bit more assertive. And I feel like in that specific case, it's my obligation to let them know that I am indeed one of them, at least in certain terms. Of course, identities are extremely complex. Us and them: it's very hard to define these categories. But in that case, I usually say, yes, I am from Ukraine, so we'll have to build upon that. And yeah, most of the time people are ready to accept that kind of conversation. But sometimes I do hear takes that are extremely upsetting. It happens so rarely that I remember most of them. I've had the conversation that goes, “Where are you from?” “I'm from Ukraine too.” And then it goes, “Then what's up with your face?” That conversation I will remember for the rest of my life.

Oleksandr Shyn, photo used with permission.

AA: What do you like to say to people about your identity if the conditions are right?

OS: I speak of the history of oppression, because that defines a lot of what I do right now and defines a certain continuity in my people's history, because my ancestors, my Korean ancestors, were living in the Far East and parts of the Russian Empire. But in 1937, they were subject to Soviet deportation, the resettlement of the whole ethnic group living in those territories into Central Asia. It was sort of the beginning of the Soviet mass deportations that were meant to detach people from areas close to their homelands. This happened to pretty much every ethnic minority in the Soviet Union. It happened to Ukrainians themselves. They were once a minority in a big empire as well.

I think a lot of that defined the way I see my Korean-ness, but a lot of that also defined how I see my Ukrainian-ness, because that's something that connects us, the Soviet Koreans and Ukrainians of today, the fight for the freedom, first of all, but also the right to bear that memory, the right to heal the trauma and the right to identify the perpetrator, which in this case is, of course, Russian imperialism and Russian colonialism in the case of Ukrainian people.

AA: So, for someone who's listened to this conversation and realized that they've been asking that question — “Where are you really from?” — and not realizing that it can cause hurt or offense? What's a better way to ask the question? How would you like to be asked about your identity and history?

OS: I really don't mind the question, the “Where are you from?” without the “really” one, because “really” is the hurtful part, right? People assume that there is a certain answer to “Where are you from?” and therefore they already go ahead and they add that “really” to say your first answer will not work for me anyways why don't you start with something that's already you know gonna satisfy my curiosity and also perhaps answer my assumptions about your race about how you look or what language you speak or what accent you're wearing. So I feel like drop the “really” just ask the genuine “Where are you from?” because that is as as generic but also as sincere as it could be I feel like it could be about your place it could be about your identity it could be about where your grandparents were from or it could be about your home that you have right now perhaps. In my case Taipei is my home and Taiwan is my only home at the moment because southern Ukraine is occupied by Russia so technically this country, where I've been living for only three years of my life, is where I am from in many contexts, so I feel like that question reveals a lot, but drop the “really,” really.

AA: So, Olek, is there anything else you would like to be able to say about this topic?

OS: Well, I think this question is very personal, right? Everyone will have an answer to it, and perhaps depending on the mood you're in. But I think it's been useful for me personally to have a certain defense mechanism developed about how to accept this question when people approach me. You know, it's very suggestive. “Where are you really from?” And then once I'm saying I'm Ukrainian, I would say, “Oh, you know, well, everyone in Ukraine looks like this.” And then I just observe their reaction. And that is really precious, I feel like. And it also makes my day a little bit better.

AA: Thank you, Olek.

OS: Thank you so much for this conversation.