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China: Sunday Night Political Chat

Chinese academic Yu Jianrong has long since moved on from (and apologized for) using his popular Sina microblog to rally kids armed with smartphones to go chase down homeless families, and seems to have found a better use for his platform. (On a side note, Yu is one of the few Internet celebrities to have brought attention to Chinese artist Ai Weiwei‘s arrest earlier this month.)

On the night of Sunday 17 April, 2011, Yu posted a photo taken during a recent trip to the United States, along with a summary of the conversation he had there with several of his peers, seemingly spurred by the long string of recent arrests.

Yu writes [zh]:

回到了北京。在美见了新加坡的永年教授。我同意他的《保卫社会》书中这观点:一个可持续的和谐社会不是建立在强制力控制之下,而是基于经济、政治和社会力量之间的自愿合作之上。确立一个有助于这种自愿合作发生和发展的制度环境,应当是政府主导的社会改革的核心。图:张炜、于、郑永年、吴国光在闲聊

Arrived back in Beijing. While in the US I met with Singaporean professor Zheng Yongnian. I agree with the view he puts forth in “Society Must be Defended”: To be sustainable, a harmonious society can't be built through control or coercive force, but instead with voluntary cooperation between economic, political and social forces. To establish an institutional environment beneficial to the beginning and development of this kind of voluntary cooperation requires the government's commitment to leading social reforms. Photo: Zhang Wei, Yu Jianrong, Zheng Yongnian and Wu Guoguang chatting.

Here are a few pieces of the lengthy conversation following Yu's post:

码字工人赵野 新加坡民主么?我还真没看出来,典型的威权主义国家。(4月17日 22:56)

Is Singapore a democracy? It certainly doesn't look that way to me, rather a classic authoritarian country.

月湖无人区 大左派郑永年,又是俺们宁波老乡,不过这个大左派实在。(4月17日 22:56)

Zheng Yongnian is an old leftist, he's also from my hometown Ningbo. For a big leftist, though, he is pretty grounded.

呼吸大师 是呀,至少他不起哄认真地研究问题。//@月湖无人区:大左派郑永年,又是俺们宁波老乡,不过这个大左派实在。(4月17日 23:01)

Yeah, at least he doesn't make a lot of noise about the issues he researches. “Zheng Yongnian is an old leftist, he's also from my hometown Ningbo. For a big leftist, though, he is pretty grounded.”

蓝色特快之谜 压制越厉害,到时的反弹也越大(4月17日 22:56)

The more they repress, the bigger the eventual backlash is going to be.

本冈律师 //@律师联盟:自愿合作的和谐~(4月17日 22:56)

You have the harmony to voluntarily cooperate…

天蝎座的左手 吴国光…这个不是敏感词…(4月17日 22:56)

Wu Guoguang, how is this not a banned keyword?

北地凡客 支持。要走正路,失踪是无法走向和谐社会的。(4月17日 22:58)

Great. We need to stay on the right path. Disappearing is no way to reach a harmonious society.

颜炎岩 可惜zf不懂,官老爷们不懂,他们听不得也不愿听他们认为的对他们这个阶层的利益有触动有损伤的意见,有不同的意见就要扼杀掉。(4月17日 22:58)

Those old officials don't get it. They don't understand and they refuse to listen to any opinions they feel threaten their class interests. Anyone with differing opinions just gets knocked off.

王俊doctorwang 我们的官员会懂吗?(4月17日 22:58)

Can our officials understand this sort of thing?

风有声博无痕 就不能听一点意见。我爱我的祖国,希望她不要罗织罪名对提意见者。但我深深的失望。(4月17日 22:59)

No, they can't even handle the smallest opinion. I love my motherland, I wish she wouldn't cook up charges against those who make suggestions. But I'm deeply disappointed.

古老围脖 关键是,数以亿计的普通中国百姓能否成为合作的一方呢,强势集团会放弃排斥政策吗(4月17日 22:59)

What's key is whether or not the hundreds of millions of common Chinese folk can become party to this cooperation, and whether or not the power cartels can give up their exclusionary policies.

偶尔看书 蒋经国能重生大陆就好了。(4月17日 22:59)

About time for a new Chiang Ching-kuo here on the Mainland.

秦汉射雕 新加坡就是一个专制社会。(4月17日 22:59)

Singapore's is an autocratic society.

看电影也看现实 一直对吴国光先生十分景仰。(4月17日 23:00)

I've always been full of admiration for Mr. Wu Guoguang.

高峰AIBJ 和谐就没有太多强制,太多强制会向相反方向发展(4月17日 23:01)

Too much coercion will have an adverse effect on development.

蔬菜tc 政府不愿意主导这种改革怎么办(4月17日 23:02)

If the government isn't willing to lead these kinds of reforms, then what?

bq行者 这样的和谐才是真和谐,不过个人觉得有点儿理想化了,至少在中国不大现实。(4月17日 23:02)

Harmony like this would be true harmony, although personally I find it a little idealistic. At least for China it's not very realistic.

喜喜V8 于老师 秀才造反十年不成 我说的对吗?(4月17日 23:03)

Teacher Yu, even if the most talented scholars revolted for ten years, they still wouldn't succeed, am I right?

途说道听2世 于兄,此次海南博鳌会上,又冒出来了一个“河蟹亚洲”裹脚布破旗迎着呼啸的海风胡咧咧作响,在举国强拆杀人、瘦肉精、染色馒头、乞讨儿童等河蟹中,好一阵阵恶臭扑鼻而来。。。你远在美国时,有闻到这从南海飘出那阵恶臭没?(4月17日 23:03)

At this year's Boao Forum, Babbling Hu stood below the foot-binding cloth of a flag facing the screaming sea breeze and made some noise about a “Harmonious Asia”, this coming from the country that evicts and kills people, clenbuterol, dyed buns, child beggars and other harmonious incidents have kept the air putrid here…meanwhile you're in the United States, can you smell the stench floating out from Hainan?

喜喜V8 中国现在已经太腐败了,需要的是直接推翻。(60分钟前)

China's too corrupt now, overthrowing the government is exactly what's needed.

五月OAK 对权力自我改良的美好愿望常常会落空,是因为推进改良的力量掌握在权力自己手中.(59分钟前)

It's nice thinking that authorities will change itself for the better, but also often disappointing, because the impetus for pushing for improvements is held in the hands of authorities themselves.

薛东林007 同意此观点。和谐不是回避矛盾,而是解决矛盾,任何寄予回避的做法都是徒劳的。(59分钟前)

I agree. Harmoniousness is not about avoiding conflicts, but resolving them. Placing hope in avoidance of conflict is futile.

MilitarySpace 闹了半天,大家都有绿卡哦。(59分钟前)

All said and done, don't you all have green cards?

Samuel_LL 其实新加坡最不自由。(59分钟前)

Singapore is the least free place.

亘玄sinian 说的真好,我也觉的尊重平民,把权利下放,避免监管不力,才能更好的构建和谐社会(58分钟前)

Well said. I agree, respecting civilians, reducing authorities’ power and maintaining means for public scrutiny are the best means for establishing a harmonious society.

人民江湖 转发此微博:和谐从来都是自由、自愿、自然的状态下自动生成的一种天然状态。是由内而外的、自发的天然。任何强制、外力、扭捏、造作、甚至粉饰都是不和谐的!(58分钟前)

Harmony has always been a natural state of things that springs automatically from freedom and willingness. It comes from within, spontaneous and natural. Any coercion, foreign pressure, pretense or artifice, even whitewashing, is all unharmonious!

王强的阵地 社会是人的组合,道德、法律、发展的基础是人性的共识,共识需要协商,任何暴力的压制手段都是暂时的胜利。暴力永远是社会的破坏。(58分钟前)

Society is comprised of people, and morality, the law and basic development are the consensus of humanity. Consensus requires negotiation, and any victory which relies on means of violent suppression will only be temporary. Violence has only ever destroyed society.

幸福像小溪 转发此微博:尽管理论有时超前于现实,现实未必可行,但给我们提供了一条可能的路径,一种方向性的分析。希望能够走出西方现代社会话语权主导下的社会发展困境。(58分钟前)

Although theory sometimes exceeds reality, and maybe not be applicable in reality, it does however give us a possible way forward, a directional analysis. I hope we can just move out of the social progress predicament we're now in of Western contemporary society's linguistic hegemony.

纳亿午 所有的东西,进入中国,都要中国特色!(58分钟前)

Anything that enters China assumes Chinese characteristics!

铁块–流离寻岸的花 转发此微博:十个当官的有十一个贪,除了贪,他们没有其它任何本事。对于升官发财没有好处的事它们是不会费心去做的。(57分钟前)

Out of every ten officials, eleven of them are corrupt. Aside from corruption, there isn't anything else they're good at. Anything that doesn't help officials get promoted or rich, they don't worry about.

叶落知秋keon 政府主导??这就是所谓的社会主义???(29分钟前)

The government needs to take a leading role?? Is this that so-called socialism???

城市马帮 于老师,美国有访民村么?(今天 00:46)

Teacher Yu, are there petitioners in the United States?

于建嵘 回复@城市马帮:没有发现(59分钟前)

Yu Jianrong: Not that I saw.

6 comments

  • […] by John Kennedy, Global Voices, Apr 17, 2011 […]

  • […] China, it still all sounds a lot like an encirclement conspiracy, something which Zheng Yongnian, director of the East Asian Institute at the National University of Singapore, touched on in this […]

  • […] Kina låter det fortfarande likt en omringningskonspiration [en], någonting som Zheng Yongnian [en], direktör för det Östasiatiska Institutet hos the National University of Singapore, nämnde […]

  • […] dell'Istituto dell'Asia orientale presso l'Università nazionale di Singapore, Zheng Yongnian, ha pubblicato un post sul suo blog [zh], in cui tratta l'argomento. All'interno, un […]

  • […] 中国においてこうしたアメリカの外国政策は、 中国包囲網 のような印象を持たれている。これについては、シンガポール国立大学の東アジア学会理事長である、 郑永年 が先週の ブログ [zh] の投稿で触れていた。このブログには 彼の最新の著書 [zh] “The Road to Great Power: China and the Reshaping of World Order” (通往大国之路:中国与世界秩序的重塑) からの引用が含まれている。 中国的地缘政治非常特殊。中国周边有21个国家(与中国陆地相邻的国家有15个,同中国隔海相望的国家有6个)。从上往下,有朝鲜、日本,接下来是东南亚国家,再下来是印度、缅甸。中国是世界上唯一被核武器包围的国家。中国有安全感吗?如果墨西哥、加拿大要发展核武器,美国拼了老命也不会让它们发展。 中国は21カ国(陸地で15カ国、海を挟んで6カ国)に囲まれているという極端に特異な地政学的な環境にある。上から順に挙げていくと、北朝鮮、日本、これに東南アジア諸国が続き、それからインドとミャンマーとある。また、中国は核兵器に囲まれた地球上で唯一の国でもある。これでも中国は安心だと感じるであろうか? もしメキシコとカナダが核兵器を開発することを決定したのであれば、アメリカはどのような手を使ってでもそれを止めようとするであろう。 南シナ海における領海の主張(画像はWikipediaより入手) 中国没有国际空间,拿海权来说,中国有海权吗?没有。往东,走不出去,有美、日、澳大利亚、新西兰等国挡着,往印度洋,有印度。印度的唯一假想敌是中国。现在唯一剩下的是南海,但美国等国都对南海感兴趣,如果那里被堵住,中国一点出海口都没有。中国连航空母舰都没有,怎么去投送兵力?怎么去履行国际责任?更不用说国际领导权。 中国はまた国際的な海域(公海)へのルートが十分にはない。海上で中国にどんな力があるというのか。なにもない。東方面の海域ではアメリカ、日本、オーストラリア、ニュージーランドその他の国々にブロックされていてどこにも中国の行く場所はない。インド洋においては、中国を唯一の敵とみなしているインドがある。そうすると、残された場所はアメリカとその他の国々が興味を抱いている 南シナ海である。その南シナ海からも中国を包囲すれば、中国には海への隣接ポイントは一つも残されていないことになる。中国は自身の空母も保有していないのに、どのように軍隊を展開すると考えられるのであろうか。中国は国際的な責任をどのように果たせるというのか、ましてやどのように国際的なリーダーシップを担えというのか。 […]

  • […] sabwatang pagpapalibot sa Tsina o ang encirclement conspiracy na tinatawag [en], bagay na pinuna ni Zheng Yongnian, [en] tagapangasiwa ng Suriang Silangang Asya sa Pamantasang Pambansa ng Singapore, sa kanyang blog […]

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