China: Blogger interrogated after criticizing Shanghai EXPO 2010 · Global Voices
Oiwan Lam

A blogger, A Bad Friend, was summoned by security police for interrogation over tea upon writing an article, 10 sins of EXPO 2010, on his blog. After the tea session, he wrote another article, “La Dernière Classe”, recording the conversation between the security police and himself. The exchange reflects the ideological conflict between a party-state nation represented by the security police and a people-orientated nation represented by the student blogger. The two original posts were deleted but still circulated widely online.
Long before the EXPO 2010 started, the Propaganda Department has issued notice to newspapers and major web portals for positive reports. Despite all the chaos during the opening, most of the official reports remained positive and there were very few negative comments online. The 10 sins listed by A Bad Friend were so far the most elaborated criticism of the EXPO from a local resident's perspective and that's probably the reason behind the tea session. Let's look at the  EXPO 10 sins first:
EXPO 10 sins
世博难民――因为筹办世博会，黄浦江附近许多居民曾被迫迁移，更有许多居民遭到强行迁移，以至流离失所。
侵犯人权――上海世界博览会逼近，上海当局为严控在当地工作的逾十万名外国人，要求他们每晚必须11时前返回住处，引发部分外国人不满，认为严重侵犯人身自由和个人隐私。…就在最近，上海维权人士冯正虎宣布举办“冤案博览会”后，表示遭到警方登门“抄家”，带走了电脑、上网数据机等器材。此外上海世博会不设示威区，而在中国又无法自由的游行、抗议，也就是说世博会期间禁止示威游行…
好大喜功的面子工程――由国家主办上海承办的世博会的花销为4000亿，成为史上最昂贵的世博会，与勤俭办博的理念背道而驰。再看看，西南五省大旱，6000万人受灾，损失200多亿, 中央拨付旱灾救灾资金1.5亿元；“两会”期间，有官员指出: 中国实现全民免费医疗每年需花费1600亿元,目前中国不具备这个经济实力!对比一下，民生工程在面子工程面前显得多么的脆弱…
不透明的财务预算和闭门决策――上海世博会的开支明细至今未向社会公开，决策习惯闭门决策…
文化损毁和房价畸高――上海当局为筹办世博会，使得一片片有上海特色的老城区被推土机和大铲车夷为平地。建成后的绝大部分场馆将在世博会后拆掉，不全拆是为了保留“世博板块”用于带动房价的飙升…
扰民会――…当局以改善市容保障安全为由，除了限制民众晒衫，又劝阻民众穿睡衣上街，买菜刀也要实名制… 上海当局近日又宣布，居民购买老鼠药及含剧毒成份的农药物品，也要凭身份证…
礼仪小姐变态培训―― …来自各地高校的数名美丽可爱的姑娘们经过层层选拔，接受形体、外事礼仪、世博会知识、外语等方面的培训，最终确定为礼仪人员。但如此训练方式，真是让人不免心生怜惜。礼仪不是这样练成的！这么练是叫这些女孩子去卖笑么？我就不明白了？就不能像其他国家的女孩子一样？发自内心的微笑么？
世博歌曲抄袭事件――…未开幕，先丢人，这个估计动用了一千万人民币制作费的世博曲 现在看来成了上海世博会的烫手山芋，也实为一大国耻。…
城市，让生活更糟糕―― 上海世博会的口号“城市，让生活更美好”…中国的大城市就是这样，毁灭100万个理想，用这100万个理想诞 生出1到2个新富。…
“太平盛世”下被掩盖的罪恶
“La Dernière Classe”
On May 11, the blogger was summoned by security police. The main purpose of the exchange, apart from delivering a warning to the blogger, is also an examination of his thought with an attempt to identify the source of his idea and whether or not there is a social network behind the scene. The blogger called the tea session “La Dernière Classe”:
國\保：你在哪裡開的博客？是不是寫過世博會的文章，什麼文章?
我：新\浪。寫了世博的十宗罪。可能是因為我不是名人，我不是韓寒，所以你們才會來找我。確實我也受了韓寒較大的影響，他的很多小說我都看過（國寶插話“三重門”）。是的，還有其他小說和博客，我也一直很喜歡他，今天對我來說很不幸。
Me: Sinablog and I wrote about the 10 sins of Expo. Probably because I am not famous, I am not HanHan, that's why you come after me. Actually I am under the influence of HanHan, I read many of his novels and I like him a lot. Today is a misfortune to me.
國\保：韓寒是韓寒。你對世博會有什麼看法？
我：我不反對世博會本身，但是反對世博會被政治化。世博會作為一個文化和科技方面的展覽會在中國舉辦，可以使參觀者受到啟蒙，擴大視野，也是一個增進世界各國瞭解和交流的平臺。但是沒有必要進行這樣大規模的宣傳造勢以及對市民生活的過多限制，它不應該被當做一個政治任務來抓。去年芝加哥申辦2016奧運會時支援率很低，而除此之外它的很多方面都是最優秀的，我並沒有因此看到美國的有些部門去上門給芝加哥民眾“做工作”甚至進行威脅叫他們支持申奧。我也沒有看到上海世博會自我標榜的一些理念付諸實踐，諸如什麼“低碳世博”、“綠色出行”、“勤儉辦博”、“廉潔辦博”、“和諧世博”等等。我也去過浦東，它不像日本等其他國家的世博會是在郊區的森林附近舉辦的，而且黃浦江兩岸燃放的煙花比北京奧運還多。現在世博會在很多國家都是雞肋，在民眾連基本的醫療保障和失業救濟都沒有的時候，我不知道花這麼多錢舉辦這樣一個東西對民眾有什麼意義。尤其是有那麼多的人的房屋因為世博被強制拆遷，而得到的補貼又很少，他們許多人選擇忍氣吞聲，還有少數人走上維\權之路卻處處遭到打\壓，一些人甚至流離失所，難道這些不都是政府的責任嗎？到世博會結束，政府再通過賣土地賺錢，很多人要遭受二次剝\削。
Me: I am not against Expo as an event, but against its politicization. The Expo, as an exhibition of culture and science development, can be an Enlightening event in China. It is a platform for us to understand the world more. However, it is not necessary to turn it into a propaganda and post so many restriction on people's life. It should not be organized as a political mission. Last year when Chicago applied for 2016 Olympic, not so many Chicago residents supported the city government, but the government would not “educate” the mass and threaten the people to support the Olympic application. The Shanghai Expo has not followed the principles and ideas that it advocated, such as “Low carbon Expo”, “Green”, “Hardwork and Thriftiness” etc. I travelled to Cambodia once, unlike other countries, their Expo took place near the forest. Our firework in Huangpu river is more than the Beijing Olympic. Many countries do not want to hold EXPO nowadays. When our people do not enjoy basic health care and unemployment support, I don't see the value in spending so much money on this. Moreover, so many people were forced to move with little compensation, most of them chose to keep silent, a few decided to defend their rights but repressed, some had lost their home. The government should be responsible for these. When the Expo comes to an end, the government will sell the land and many will be exploited again.
國\保：世博會是我們國家崛起的一個巨大的標誌，我們應該感到驕傲。你剛才所說的這些是從哪裡知道的？
我：海外的新聞媒體吧,BBC、VOA、RFI、DW、RFA、《紐約時報》什麼的，還有像國內可以打得開的中文網站，如新加坡《聯合早報》。我從來都不信任國內的媒體，畢竟來說，西方的媒體至少是獨立的，這可以保證它的公信力，這也是西方媒體能成為有很多受眾的全球性媒體的很重要的原因。
Me: Overseas news media, like BBC, VOA, RFI, DW, RFA, New York Times. Also, unblocked Chinese news websites such as zaobao.com. I don't trust mainland media, western media are more independent and therefore trustworthy, that's probably why they have a global audience.
國\保：你英文不錯吧？我也經常看海外的一些新聞網站，他們寫的許多東西都不可信，很喜歡寫些中國的陰暗面，我們應該更多看到我們國家強大積極的一面。
我：我英文一般一般，也只能說是在瞭解有關背景的基礎上看懂大概的意思而已。新聞媒體本身就應是獨立的，它的本質是對社會起監督作用，不是說像中國一樣用來宣傳的。我們的社會需要進步，要進步就應該去正視和揭露這個社會的陰暗面，而不是去掩蓋它，營造一種虛假的和諧。當然西方的媒體是比較客觀的，他們有的時候也會對中國表示讚美，比喻對北京奧運的盛大開幕式，這也是中國政府樂於聽到的東西。
Me: My English is so-so, but I managed to understand the basic content. News media should be independent in order to monitor the society. They should not become propaganda tools. Our society needs progress, that's why we have to confront the dark side, not cover it up and create a false harmony. Of course western media are more objective, they also praise China, for example the reports on the opening of Beijing Olympic is very positive.
國\保：他們的媒體也有自己的立場，並不是很客觀。
我：任何人都會有自己在一些問題上的立場和價值觀，這並不帶表就不就客觀了。我認為言論足夠的自由就可以保證新聞媒體的客觀性。
Me: Everyone has their own stand and value, but it does not negate objectivity. When we have free speech, the news media will be more objective.
國\保：我們國家也有言論自由，但是不能說有絕對的言論自由，你不能造謠誹謗別人，不能侵害他人的自由，不可以洩露國家機密。
我：我從來不認為有什麼絕對的自由，自由是指憲政基礎上的自由，你當然不能侵犯別人的自由，不可以針對有人格行為的主體進行攻擊和辱駡。而政府和總統是不具備主體人格的，也就是說我可以在白宮外面大聲的罵美國政府，在電視上公開的批評這個政府，即便是對政府的不實攻擊，那麼也不應該承擔任何法律上的責任。至於洩露國家機密，除非我是某個單位的，我和政府簽訂了保密協定，那麼我洩露了我才會承擔法律責任。洩露國家機密應該有一個具體的程式，它不是一個非常寬泛的概念，普通公民無從去知道國家機密，即便知道了，那就一定是政府或者簽訂了保密協定的人和單位給洩露了，那麼簽訂了協定的人應該被追責，政府應該為失責行為對民眾承擔責任，普通公民沒有所謂的保守國家秘密的義務，更不應該以此為手段對普通公民進行莫須有的打\壓。
Me: I don't thing there is anything called absolute freedom. Freedom is based on a country's constitution. One cannot attack other people's character and infringe other's right. However, the president and the government should not be counted as individual, which means I can curse the U.S government outside the White House or criticize the government in front of T.V. Even though my criticism is invalid, I should not have legal responsibility. As for leaking national secret, unless I worked in certain institution and signed an agreement, I should be responsible for the leak. National secret should be defined with an official procedure, ordinary people don't know what a national secret is. If they know about it, it is leaked by those who had signed the confidential document, they are the ones to be blamed. The government should be accountable for their mistake, and ordinary citizens do not have the responsibility to keep the secret. It should not become a pretext to suppress ordinary citizens.
國\保：你沒看到我們國家這些年的言論已經很進步了，相比十年前，很多東西媒體上都會寫，像你說的暴力拆\遷，互聯網也是開放的。
我：現在媒體上會寫這些東西，很大程度上是因為有互聯網的競爭，而且有些有責任的媒體也是在試探底線，同事要考慮到市場，因為人們不喜歡聽過多的吹噓的聲音。很多東西因為是首先在互聯網上曝光了，傳統媒體然後去進行輿\論導向，相比以前這也算是一種不得已的進步了。政府它不可能完全去關閉互聯網，因為它必須去兼顧商業利益，既要完全封住人們的嘴，又想兼顧商業利益，這不可能做到，二者不可兼得。就像之前的這個穀歌事件的發酵就是一個很好的例子。
Me: The media reports on negative news is because of the competition from the Internet. Some responsible media are testing the baseline. They also care about the market, people do not like propaganda. Many incidents are disclosed on the Internet and the media stepped in to channel the public opinion. They are compelled to make progress. The government cannot shut down the Internet because of business interest. They cannot shut people up and gain business interest at the same time; Google is an example.
國\保：這個穀歌是怎麼回事？
我：它是因為不堪忍受中國繁瑣和不透明的網路審\查制度。導火線只是因為一些維\權人士的Gmail郵箱遭到黑\客攻\擊和穀歌的密碼系統被侵\入。穀歌中國本身就背理了穀歌的價值觀。
Me: Google cannot stand the non-transparent censorship system anymore. The flash point is the hacking of human rights activists’ Gmail accounts, and Google considers it a violation of its values.
國\保：你說的這些是穀歌說的吧，你怎麼就信他們說的？
我：我覺得有些事實擺在眼前，我也不可能去進行調查，相比國內的一些網路企業，我始終相信穀歌，欣賞它提供的服務，沒有足夠的信譽它是不可能成為全球性企業的。
Me: The picture is clear to me. I cannot do the investigation. When compared with other Internet companies, I believe Google more and like its service. They cannot become a global corporation without reputation.
我：這個我還真不確定，雖然我看過有些國內的媒體有這方面的報導，但是國內媒體的公信力有多少呢？我在其他媒體上從未聽到過說美國人的生活全部被監\控，國內的一些人去了美國也沒有這方面的說法。美國本身是一個很開放的法治國家，即便有監\聽，我相信只是在不侵犯合法公\民的權益的基礎上，比喻說對待恐怖分子。
Me: I cannot be sure about this. I read reports from local media about this, but doubt if they are trustworthy. I have not heard from other media that American people's lives are under monitoring. People who returned from the U.S did not say anything on this. The U.S is a very open nation governed by law, if they monitor the phone, I believe it only targets terrorists and won't violate citizens’ rights.
國\保：你聽說過美國最近的廣場炸彈襲擊的事情嗎？那他們是怎麼發現的？
我：這個事情我知道。那是時報廣場的一個小販發現可疑車輛然後報警的。
Me: Yes, I have heard about that. A hawker in the square noticed a suspicious vehicle and reported it to the police.
國\保：那美國怎麼那麼快就把那個人逮捕了呢？美國現在是2億多人吧（我插話“三億多”），美國人的資訊都被國家所掌控了。
我：那個巴基斯坦裔美國人是在去機場搭機前往迪拜進行安檢時被逮捕的，這說明了美國行政、司法等的高效，美國公民的資訊記錄在冊並不代表美國人的隱私受侵犯，那是美國人的尊嚴的體現，國家有保密的義務，安全問題同樣重要，而對於嫌疑犯美國也是表示充分的尊重。
Me: The Pakistani American was arrested in the airport during security check to Dubai. It reflects the effectiveness of their administration and judiciary. The fact that the U.S government has citizens’ identity on record does not mean that their privacy was violated. It is the government's duty to protect citizens’ information, at the same time, security is a very important issue, but the government also respects the suspect's right.
國\保：美國發達是因為美國的多元，而你只看海外的東西，偏聽則暗，我們在說的時候，你有的時候插嘴，不喜歡聽別人的意見，你太一元化了。而且我們國家人口多，這是一個國情。
我：確實，美國發達是因為有多遠的體系，而中國則是一元體制，所以我今天才會來到這裡。我不是一元化，我有我基本的是非觀念，而中國往往是沒有是非觀念，我希望任何問題都可以公開討論，我充分尊重每一個人表達的權利，不管他們持什麼立場和思想觀念。我接受的資訊也是多元的，我並非聽到的都是批評的聲音，我也比較喜歡溫\家\寶吧，但我不喜歡胡\錦\濤。
Me: I agree that the U.S has a very diverse system, while China is very homogeneous, that's why I am here. I am not homogeneous, I have a sense of right and wrong, in China, many don't have such concept. I wish we can openly discuss all issues and I respect all individuals’ rights in expression, regardless of their position and thought. The information that I receive is very diverse, I also hear positive voices. I like Wen Jiabao, but I don't like Hu Jintao.
國\保：你也喜歡溫總理。
我：我認為溫\家\寶在共\產\黨內面是一個異數，不搞拉\幫結\派，講了很多啟發人的智慧的話語，先不論他的家族，在共\產\黨這樣的生態裡面，這些已經足夠了。
Me: Wen Jiabao is a very distinctive person in the CCP, he does not have a clan and says words of wisdom. Regardless of his family background, such kind of character is very remarkable within the CCP.
國\保：你要知道網上的言論有很多不真實的。前不久網上流傳說，武漢的東湖說要部分填了修建酒店，這個東西不斷傳，造成了很不好的影響。
我：這個事情我聽說過。如果是這樣，那這裡政府是不是有很大的責任?中國的政\府都習慣於暗\香操\作，政務不公開，有的時候當然會有流言。如果政務公開了，即便有流言了，也是不堪一擊。
Me: I heard about it too. If it is really the case, the government is responsible for such a rumor. The Chinese government likes to operate in the dark, of course there are rumors. If it is more transparent, rumors will stop spreading.
國\保：你身邊的人像你這樣的思想的多嗎？
我：幾乎沒有吧。可能是大家從小接受這樣一種教育的原因吧，像什麼標\注答案，作文要有正確的思想導\向這些東西，它扼殺\人的思想和獨立思考能力。我很反對中國現行的教育體\制，我希望能有真真的公民教育，不要再有這樣的黨\化教育和大學的行\政主導一切。
Me: No. Probably people receive the same kind of education here and train for the standard answer. Even our composition needs to be politically correct and it kills independent thinking. I oppose the present education system and wish we will have genuine civic education. No more party education.
國\保：你說公民教育啊，你應該看到我們國家這個良好的政治制度是關鍵，這個不能改。
我：我覺得中國的許多問題恰恰就根源於這個政治制度。我知道美國也有貪\汙腐\敗的問題，這是人性方面的原因，但是它和中國的貪\腐很不相同，美國有一個制約機制，而中國的官\員幾乎是人人都貪而且數額巨大。
Me: I believe many problem in this country is result of this political system. I know that in the U.S, they also have a corruption problem, this is part of human nature. However, in the U.S, there is a control mechanism, while in China, almost all government officials are corrupted and the amount is huge.
國\保：我們不說這個貪\汙的問題。你應該看到我們國家現在在不斷的強大，而你思想太過於陰暗，只盯住那些不好的方面，偏聽則暗，你應該多看看我們國家的主流。
我：我不認為我所關注的是這個國家的支流。我們的報刊媒體上到處都是一些把政府讚美得天花亂墜的東西，這個社會需要更多批評的聲音來推動社會的進步，我希望我們的國家是一個自由和開放的國度，像美國一樣，可以容納各種不同的聲音。
Me: I don't think my concern is the branch stream of this country. Our media are full of stories that praise the government. We need more criticism to transform our society and make it better. I wish our country could be a free and open society that can contain different voices, like the U.S.
國\保：我們國家這些年來在不斷的進步，這就是主流。你感覺到我們國家這些年來進步了嗎？
我：沒有明顯的感覺，我更多的感覺是退步了。
Me: I don't have that feeling, on the other hand, I feel the regression.
國\保：那你覺得是那些方面的問題?
我：這些年來不斷上演的暴力拆\遷的問題，政府為了賣地賺\錢利用權\力配合黑\社會來搶\劫民\宅，只有低價的補\償，很多人上\訪卻要被關\押。還有環境污染和各種安全事\故愈演愈烈。基本的社會保障欠缺，很多人生病了可能不得不等死。勞工的權益得不到保障。物價飛漲，工資卻不見上漲。官\商勾\結，壓\榨私\營企業，然後企業又把這些壓力轉\嫁給勞工，也就是國進民退的問題。總之，很多很多問題。
Me: All these years the forced demolition problem keeps recurring. In order to make profit, the government works with triad to rob people. People only receive little compensation and many visit petitioners are arrested. Pollution and different security problems are elevated. People don't have basic social security protection, many sick people can only wait for death to come. Workers are not protected. Prices keep rising while wages remain the same. Government officials and business people are colluded and corporate displace their pressure on the workers. The country has progress but not its people. There are many many such kind of problems.
國\保：你說的這些是民生問題，這些確實存在，但我們不也在進步嗎？比喻這個拆\遷的問題就在進行重新立法來阻止暴\力拆\遷。
我：我不認為這個問題重新立法了就可以解決這個問題，只要政府性\質不變，那麼這樣的問題就難以解決。
Me: I don't think legislation would solve the problem if the government nature remains unchanged.
國\保：那你說說我們國家在哪些方面有進步？
我：進步還是有的吧，比喻說獲得了這個奧運會和世博會的主辦權，北京的空氣品質有改善，經濟在不斷增長，還有就是在國際上建立了那麼多孔子學院進行文化輸出。總之，在經濟文化方面取得了一些進步。（不知道這是否算進步，他們問，我也只能這麼回答。）
Me: We have some progress, for example we have Olympic and Expo, the air condition is Beijing has improved and the economy has grown. Moreover, we have Confucian Institutes all over the world to export our culture. In terms of economy and culture, there are some progress. (Not sure whether they can be counted as progress, just to answer their question.)
國\保：你說的這些還不夠準確。我們的進步更多的體現在我們國家的政治越來越優化，黨和國家解決了許多問題。我們獲得了國際上越來越多的讚美，地位更高了。
我：我可真的沒有像你們這麼明顯的感覺。可能因為我只是游走於體制外的社會底層的人士，不像你們生活在體制內，可以親自去體會那種“進步”。當然我知道你們今天來也是奉上。
Me: I don't share your feeling. Probably because I belong to the lower class outside the system while you are within the system and you can feel the “progress”.
國\保：這不是體制的問題，你看問題太過於陰暗。看問題要堅持客觀和理性。
我：我覺得我一直都很客觀理性，我並不會為了批評某些東西而去造謠什麼的，我熱愛真理。也許我以後該更加的客觀理性。
Me: I am objective and rational.  I don't create rumors in order to criticize something. I love truth. Maybe I should be more objective and rational in the future.
國\保：我向你提出三點要求，希望你記住：1、不要再寫那些文章了；2、要堅持客觀、理性、準確、全面的看問題；3、希望你找到一個好工作，現在先要謀取生存，有些東西不需要你操心。
我：我記住了。
Me: Got it.
國\保：進入社會後，你會發現還有很多個人問題要去解決，你的思想也會慢慢改變和成熟。
我：進入社會後，我一定會發現中國社會比校園還要黑暗得多。怎麼變得更成熟？也就是更世俗化吧，我不知道是否還要堅持原則和價值理念。
Me: After I enter society, I will find out that  society is darker than the school. How to become mature? To be more secular. I am not sure whether I would still continue my principle and value.
國\保：我也經歷過你這個階段，當時我比你還激進。就像小時候做的某些事，在現在看來是多麼的幼稚。不要總是舉著民主、人權的大旗，就以為站在了制高點，聽不進去他人的話。
我：每個人的經歷和價值觀念有差異，我並沒有這麼深的感受。也許我會改變吧，但我始終希望我們的社會越來越自由和開放並願意為此付出努力，我更希望我作為一個個體能夠得到平等的尊重。
Me: Everyone's experiences and values are different, I don't have very intense feeling. Maybe I will change, but I wish our society will become freer and opener. I also wish that every individual can be equally respected.
國\保：以後有問題可以多和這位書記交流一下。
我：我在學校的時間不會很長了，應該沒有這個必要了。
Me: My time in the school won't be long, it won't be necessary.
國\保：記住我們的話，你可以走了。
我：謝謝。
Me: Thank you.
Special thanks to Marta Cooper for language editing.