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China: Let Feng Zhenghu come home, to jail time

Feng Zhenghu‘s 92-day protest in Narita airport has ended and he now has a flight back to Shanghai booked for this Friday, just in time for Chinese New Year, but updates [zh] to his Twitter account over the past weekend suggest that Feng remains unsure over whether he'll be let back into China. This Friday at noon will be his ninth consecutive attempt to return home.

fzhu92

Why hasn't Feng, with his valid passport, been allowed to return to China, a right supposedly afforded to all Chinese citizens? In the absence of an explanation from Beijing, many have looked to Shanghai and see Feng's story as part of a larger trend of local authorities’ growing willingness to violate rule of law with disregard to response from the Central government.

Mainland Chinese media aren't reporting on Feng's current forced exile, and many blog posts and BBS threads on the topic have been harmonized; sentiment within China's virtual (self-imposed) exile community on Twitter stands quite strongly in Feng's favor, but in a case this like what more is there really to say?

A lot it turns out, judging from this archived Anti-CNN thread which dates back to December and runs on for five pages; comments from the first page illustrate a seldom-heard perspective on the larger story behind Feng's situation, that of the plight of figures in China's exiled democracy movement, several of whom have recently begun using sites like Facebook and Twitter to connect with a growing number of mainland netizens:

为你而注册:
冯正虎的事情,我好像叛变了
他还是有点钱的,要说他是美分党很难让人相信。
他没有任何组织,说他是民运,也没人相信。
555回不了国。连一个理由都没有。
上海怎么了?

I Signed up 4u:

WRT Feng Zhenghu's case, I think I've switched sides
You know he does have a fair amount of his own money, nobody's really going to believe that he's bankrolled by the US gov.

He's not affiliated with any groups, so it's hard to paint him as part of the democracy movement.
They won't let him come home, and he hasn't even been given a reason.

Just what is going on there in Shanghai?

liuyw2009:
你凭什么认为自己了解他?你认识他?

liuyw2009:

Who are you to speak up for him? Do you know him?

为你而注册:
我不了解他。
就是因为不了解才好奇。究竟什么原因?
难道不需要任何理由,就可以采取这种方式?
这才是让人恐惧的地方。

I Signed up 4u:

No, I don't.

But it's because I don't know him that I'm curious. I want to know what this is all about.
I mean they have to have some sort of reason to take steps like this, no?

That's the scary part.

shangqunsheng:
据了解,冯正虎拥有日本居留签证,日本入国管理局多次劝他入境。(摘自南海网)
日本人吗?仍是中国籍吗?如不是中国人当然可以拒绝入境。

shangqunsheng:

From what I know, Feng Zhenghu has a Japanese residency visa, the Immigration Bureau of Japan has let him enter the country numberous times. (according to HainanNet)

wilkins:
据称,他是三股势力的其中之一。
众人恍然大悟,明白了。

wilkins:

They say he's mixed in with one of the Three Evils.
The people's eyes have been opened, they understand now.

shangqunsheng:
问:因为被中国相关部门拒绝入境,中国公民冯正虎至今仍在日本机场滞留。为什么他作为中国公民却不被允许入境?如果他被允许回到中国,中方将如何处置他?
答:中国有关部门根据相关法律,如《中华人民共和国公民出境入境管理法》来处理。具体情况请你向有关部门去了解。(中国外交部答记者问)
以往是中国人,目前可能不是中国人。只是华裔而已。

shangqunsheng:

Q: Chinese citizen Feng Zhenghu, having been refused entry to China by the relevant authorities, to his day has been taking abode in Japan's Narita Airport. As a Chinese citizen, why is he not being allowed to enter China? Also, if he is allowed to return to China, how will he be treated?

A: The relevant Chinese authorities will deal with this according to the relevant Chinese laws, such as . For the exact details you can contact the relevant departments. (response to a journalist's question at a Ministry of Foreign Affairs press conference)


He used to be a Chinese citizen, now all he might be is just an ethnic Chinese.

woshizx:
[b]中华人民共和国公民出境入境管理法实施细则[/b]
http://www.gov.cn/banshi/2005-08/31/content_27719.htm
第十五条 有下列情形之一的,边防检查站有权阻止出境、入境:
[…]
(二)持用无效护照或者其他无效出境入境证件的;
[…]
第二十二条 中华人民共和国护照和其他出境入境证件的持有人有下列情形之一的,其护照、出境入境证件应予以吊销或者宣布作废:
[…]
(三)从事危害国家安全、荣誉和利益的活动的。
[…]

I am ZX:

Details on implementation of the Law of the PRC on the Control of the Exit and Entry of Citizens

Article 15 Under any of the following circumstances, border inspection points have the authority to refuse entry or exit:
[…]
2. Possession of an invalid passport or other invalid entry/exit document;
[…]
Article 22 PRC passports and other entry/exit documents will under any of the following circumstances be revoked or declared invalid:
[…]
3. A Chinese citizens commits an act harmful to the security, honor or interests of the country.
[…]

为你而注册:
(三)从事危害国家安全、荣誉和利益的活动的。
——————————————————-
依据这条?
那就宣布护照吊销就完了。搞得满城风雨。

I Signed up 4u:

3. A Chinese citizens commits an act harmful to the security, honor or interests of the country.

So it was based on this?
So then declare his passport invalid and be done with it, no need for all this fuss.

kachemi:
喜欢美国去美国啊 不要回来装民主的精蝇

kachemi:

If he likes America so much he should just go there, don't coming back pretending to be a democracy leader or whatever

woshizx:
依据这条?
那就宣布护照吊销就完了。搞得满城风雨。

冯的护照早就过期了,他自己说过中国驻日本大使馆不给他续签。
政府基本上一句话不说应该是想冷处理这种事,这种的事情你一旦回应就被黏上了,到时候什么西媒、什么NGO、什么“不同政见者”甚至这个那个国家的外交部、议会都会卷进来,所以干脆不回应。
他有本事就连续几年在东京成田机场耗着,到时候看到底是中国政府着急还是日本政府着急。
这个人早年反对1989年那起风波里政府的决策,这次美国总统来访又公开呼吁奥巴马在人权问题上要向中国施压。
还有其他,不一而足。

I am ZX:

So it was based on this?
So then declare his passport invalid and be done with it, no need for all this fuss.


Feng's passport expired a long time ago, he said himself that the Chinese embassy in Japan wouldn't renew his visa.
By staying silent, the Chinese government probably just wants this to blow over; the minute you start responding to things like this, then you're in it, and Western media, NGOs, ‘dissidents’ or whatever, even foreign ministries from this or that country, they all get involved. Which is why no response whatsoever should be given.

If he's so smart, let him spend a few more years in Narita Airport, then we'll see who's really worked up over this, the Chinese government, or Japan's.

First he opposed the government's policies during that storm in 1989, now when the American President came to visit he openly called on Obama to put pressure on China for its human rights issues.

There's more, that's not all he's done.

为你而注册:
这件事情我感觉不好处理。这个人和海外民运还是有本质区别,他的所谓反对政府的事情更多的是观点而不是行动。
感觉上海方面把对付海外民运那套滥用了。网络舆情不利于政府的。

I Signed up 4u:

I just feel like there's no simple way to handle this. He's obviously different from those in the overseas democracy movement, even his so-called opposition to the government at most is just a point of view and not yet an action.

It feels like Shanghai is just bringing the overseas democracy movement into this as an excuse to deal with him. Online opinion on this is not in the government's favor.

木兰歌:
又一标准的送礼出境。

Song of Mulan:

Another classic example of sending gifts to other countries.

相逢于海上:
即使是民运、轮轮
也应该让他回国,他要回来坐牢,你凭什么不让他坐牢。

Met on the Sea:

Even if he is part of the democracy movement or an FLGer
They should still let him come back. If he wants to come back and go to prison, who are you to stop him?

为你而注册:
[quote]即使是民运、轮轮
也应该让他回国,他要回来坐牢,你凭什么不让他坐牢。[/quote]
还是有区别的,民运、轮轮这些说实话是真的对中国没有一点积极意义。
这个冯的事情,他是明显的思想上是比较偏右的,但是行动上是比较温和的。也就是说说,然后帮别人维权提供法律帮组。
其实像冯这样的很多。
把他等同于海外民运、轮轮处理。
会导致人人自危。
温和右派有多少人?
算1%吧,也是上千万。
人人自危的结果。不妙!
这件事情的处理感觉很不妥当。

I Signed up 4u:

Even if he is a democracy activist or FLGer
They should still let him come back. If he wants to come back and go to prison, who are you to stop him?

There's a difference. Those in the democracy movement, FLGers, to be honest they don't do China an inch of good.
But with Feng, while his views are obviously pretty right wing, his actions are moderate enough. He'll talk a lot, but then he goes and helps people uphold their rights or provides legal support.

Actually there's a lot of people like Feng.

If we treated them all like democracy activists or FLGers, a lot of people would feel threatened.
How many people would you say belong to the moderate right?
Let's say about 1%, that's still in the tens of millions.
Putting the fear into that many people? Bad idea!
The way this is being handled just doesn't feel right.

woshizx:
[quote]即使是民运、轮轮
也应该让他回国,他要回来坐牢,你凭什么不让他坐牢。[/quote]
那不正好成就一帮所谓“义士”?
撑死了最多关几年然后放出来,不正好给他们活动资本吗?然后造就一群达赖喇嘛第二?

I am ZX:

Even if he is part of the democracy movement or an FLGer
They should still let him come back. If he wants to come back and go to prison, who are you to stop him?

Wouldn't that then make them all a bunch of so-called ‘righteous knights'?

If at most all you do is lock them up for a few years then let them out, isn't that just giving them political capital? Then wouldn't you just be making a bunch more Dalai Lama types?

woshizx:
[quote]还是有区别的,民运、轮轮这些说实话是真的对中国没有一点积极意义。
这个冯的事情,他是明显的思想上是比较偏右的,但是行动上是比较温和的。也就是说说,然后帮别人维权提供法律帮组。
其实像冯这样的很多。[/quote]
也许,这个人做的事情不仅仅是现在媒体上公开的那些那么简单?
类似的例子不是没有,比如沃维汉事件。

I am ZX:

There's a difference. Those in the democracy movement, FLGers, to be honest they don't do China an inch of good.

But with Feng, while his views are obviously pretty right wing, his actions are moderate enough. He'll talk a lot, but then he goes and helps people uphold their rights or provides legal support.
Actually there's a lot of people like Feng.


Have you considered that maybe the things this guy has done aren't as simple as what's been openly put in media?
It's not like there aren't any similar cases, like the Wo Weihan incident.

wilkins:
社会的改变,哪次不需要血来改变。
就那么轻轻松松想翻了案,哪有那么容易

wilkins:

Since when has there been social change that hasn't had a cost in blood?
You want his case to just be overturned like that? It's not that easy.

相逢于海上:
法律本来就是针对行为而不是针对某个主体的
不管你是谁,犯了这个事情,就让你接受法律的处罚,你接受完处罚了,你就是正常的人了,该干嘛干嘛去。
如果没犯这个事,不管你是什么身份,都不得处罚。
坐牢的过程就是把你对社会做的恶都抵消了,抵消完了,就两不亏欠了,坐完牢,又是一条好汉。
就像台湾的施明德,第一次犯事被关了12年,一出来马上又犯事,又关12年
人家有种,愿意坐牢,你总不能为了防止他犯事,在坐完牢,和社会两不亏欠的情况下,把他关起来或者把他移送出境吧。人家和社会两不亏欠,是个正常人,你凭什么这么对待人家?
凡是不以行为定罪,而以主体定罪的,皆是恶法,不值得遵守。
所以,如果中国真的讲法治的话,应该是千方百计让所有的轮轮、民运引渡回国让他们接受法律的审判,审判完了,他们坐完牢了,又可以在中国自由活动了,如果再犯事再抓。顶多是第二次抓按照累犯从重处罚。
如果中国政府不让他们回国,只能说明中国不是法治,而是人治。

Met on the Sea:

Law to begin with is used again specific actions, and not certain groups of people.

It doesn't matter who you are, if you break the law, then you have to accept the legal punishment, and once you've done so, then you get to be a civilian again, that's how it goes.

If you haven't broken the law, then regardless who you are, you shouldn't be punished.
The process of sending people to prison is to cancel out the evil they've done to society. Once that's done, then nobody's owed anything. Once you've done your time, you get to be a man again.

Just like Shih Ming-teh in Taiwan, he did 12 years for his first offense, then as soon as he got out, 12 more years for another.

If people have the guts, and are willing to—and do—serve time, once they've repaid their debt to society, you can't just lock them up again or kick them out of the country just to stop them from doing the same thing again. When people have repaid their debt to society, they're free. Just where do you get off wanting to treat people like that?
Any law which criminalizes people for things other than their actions, and seeks to criminalize entire communities, is inevitably a bad law, and one that doesn't deserve to be respected.

Thus, if China is truly serious about implementing rule of law, it should do everything it can to extradite all FLGers and pro-democracy activists, give them all trials; when those are over, let them carry out their sentences, and be free to move around inside China again. If they continue to break the law, they'll be arrested again. If they get arrested a second time, at most they'll be sentenced as any repeat offenders would.

If the Chinese government doesn't let them return, then all I can say is that China is not ruled by law, but by man.

再大的罪恶也没有前线军官投敌叛变的罪恶大了,就是说林毅夫。
可是台湾的“国防部”有说不许林毅夫回台湾吗?他们只是说林毅夫如果回台湾,就得接受法律的处罚,并不是一概拒绝他回台湾。
林毅夫如果愿意坐牢,当然可以回去,坐完牢,他又可以在台湾自由活动了。
可是我们呢?民运、轮轮,犯的事比的上林毅夫么?居然说一概不允许回来,人家愿意回来坐牢都不行,这是什么法治?分明是人治。

In any case, there isn't any crime worse than high-ranking military officials turning traitor and going over to the other side, by which I'm referring to Justin Lin.

But then hasn't Taiwan's “Ministry of Defense” said it won't let him return to Taiwan? By that they mean, if Justin Lin does return to Taiwan, he'll be subject to legal punishment, and not that they refuse to allow him to return.

If Lin is willing to serve time, of course he can go back, go to prison, and then he'll be free to live in Taiwan again.

But us? Do the crimes of the democracy movement or FLG compare to Justin Lin's? To go so far as to unconditionally not allow them to return, even if they're willing to go to prison for it, what kind of rule of law is that? Clearly, it's just rule of man.

net2003:
美国可以有叛国罪,为何中国不可有。
为何中国的叛国者,总是可以厚着脸和中国谈人权讲法律,还那么的理直气壮。

net2003:

Treason is a crime in America, why can't it be in China?

Why are China's traitors also so brazen about talking to China about human rights, about law, as if they're so convinced that they're in the right?

woshizx:
[quote]法律本来就是针对行为而不是针对某个主体的
不管你是谁,犯了这个事情,就让你接受法律的处罚,你接受完处罚了,你就是正常的人了,该干嘛干嘛去。
如果没犯这个事,不管你是什么身份,都不得处罚。
坐牢的过程就是 …[/quote]
不准回国也是有法律依据可循的。
想回国?可以,登报声明反省,并且以实际行动证明不再从事危害国家安全活动。
对违法行为的惩治手段并不是只有判刑一种,不准回国也是一种惩治措施。这种措施对于维护法律实施具有更好的效果,那就完全可以采用。

I am ZX:

Law to begin with is used again specific actions, and not certain groups of people.

It doesn't matter who you are, if you break the law, then you have to accept the legal punishment, and once you've done so, then you get to be a civilian again, that's how it goes.

If you haven't broken the law, then regardless who you are, you shouldn't be punished.

The process of sending people to prison is to cancel out the evil they've done to society. Once that's done, then nobody's owed anything. Once you've done your time, you get to be a man again.


Actually there is legal basis in not letting them return to China.

You want to come back? Fine, declare it in the newspaper that you've changed your ways, and put action to your words to prove that you won't commit any more acts harmful to the security of the country.

Jail time isn't the only means by which to punish illegal behavior, not letting them return to China is one too. If there are other methods which will have a better effect in upholding the law, then there's no reason why they can't be used.

相逢于海上:
[quote]美国可以有叛国罪,为何中国不可有。
为何中国的叛国者,总是可以厚着脸和中国谈人权讲法律,还那么的理直气壮。[/quote]
一个美国人犯了叛国罪逃亡在外
美国政府一定是千方百计把他引渡回来,判处刑罚
假如判处的有期徒刑不是太长,这个人坐完牢了还没死,一定是又放出来,成为一个正常的美国公民。
绝对不是说,犯了事,拒绝你回国,也不给你判刑。

Met on the Sea:

Treason is a crime in America, why can't it be in China?

Why are China's traitors also so brazen about talking to China about human rights, about law, as if they're so convinced that they're in the right?


If an American commits treason and then flees the country

The American government would certainly do everything in its power to extradite and them convict him.

Say though that the sentence wasn't that long, that this person finishes his sentence and is still alive. He'd certainly be let out, and then revert to being a normal American citizen.

They would never say, we'll you've committed a crime so we won't let you come back, and we won't sentence you either.

woshizx:
他们和中国谈人权讲法律,就真的是人权卫士护法先锋了?
哪个家伙跟自己的国家为敌的时候,不是搞一堆冠冕堂皇的理由作为挡箭牌的?

I am ZX:

These people talking to the Chinese government about human rights and rule of law, are they really human rights defenders or the avant-garde in defending Falun Gong?

Who hasn't, when going against his own country, come up with a hundred fancy reasons to serve as a pretext?

net2003:
美国的叛国罪应该是他们最严重的罪了。是可以定死刑的。

net2003:

I think treason is the most serious crime there is in America, punishable by death.

相逢于海上:
[quote]不准回国也是有法律依据可循的。
想回国?可以,登报声明反省,并且以实际行动证明不再从事危害国家安全活动。
对违法行为的惩治手段并不是只有判刑一种,不准回国也是一种惩治措施。这种措施对于维护法律实施具 …[/quote]
我暂时无法知道是否有这样的处罚措施
但是假如真的有的话,这样也是十分不人道的
这样会导致他一辈子无法跟家人团聚
除非他家人有本事全都移民出国

Met on the Sea:

Actually there is legal basis in not letting them return to China.

You want to come back? Fine, declare it in the newspaper that you've changed your ways, and put action to your words to prove that you won't commit any more acts harmful to the security of the country.


I can't say that I've ever heard of any steps like this ever having been taken.

But to allow for a moment that they could, to do so would be completely inhumane.

He'd be kept apart from his family for the rest of his life

Unless his family has the wherewithal too immigrate elsewhere

woshizx:
[quote]一个美国人犯了叛国罪逃亡在外
美国政府一定是千方百计把他引渡回来,判处刑罚
假如判处的有期徒刑不是太长,这个人坐完牢了还没死,一定是又放出来,成为一个正常的美国公民。
绝对不是说,犯了事,拒绝你回国,也 …[/quote]
美国有美国的现实,中国有中国的国情。
社会基础不一样,当然有不同的政策,包括法律适用的政策。

I am ZX:

If an American commits treason and then flees the country

The American government would certainly do everything in its power to extradite and them convict him.
Say though that the sentence wasn't that long, that this person finishes his sentence and is still alive. He'd certainly be let out, and then revert to being a normal American citizen…


American has America's reality, China has China's national condition.

The social foundations are different, of course they have different policies, including policies for application of the law.

相逢于海上:
[quote]美国的叛国罪应该是他们最严重的罪了。是可以定死刑的。[/quote]
总之,一定是千方百计把犯了叛国罪的人引渡回来判处刑罚
我们一样可以把冯正虎搞回来判刑
他自己愿意回来坐牢
我们的政府为何要让他逍遥法外,我怀疑政府包庇他,或者政府心虚

Met on the Sea:

I think treason is the most serious crime there is in America, punishable by death.

Anyway, they'd still do everything they could to extradite a person who commits treason back for sentencing.
We should bring Feng Zhenghu back for punishment the same way.

He said he's willing to do jail time.

So why does our government let him stay at large? I suspect the government's protecting him from something, either that or it itself is guilty.

woshizx:
[quote]我暂时无法知道是否有这样的处罚措施
但是假如真的有的话,这样也是十分不人道的
这样会导致他一辈子无法跟家人团聚
除非他家人有本事全都移民出国 …[/quote]
最有名的有家不能回的中国人,估计就是达赖喇嘛了。
这个人当年从中印边境出逃的时候,我空军完全有实力把他炸死,实际上当时空军的飞机已经发现他了——但结果是毛泽东亲自决策把他放出去了。
历史证明当时把达赖放出去是完全正确的。

I am ZX:

I can't say that I've ever heard of any steps like this ever having been taken.
But to allow for a moment that they could, to do so would be completely inhumane.

He'd be kept apart from his family for the rest of his life

Unless his family has the wherewithal too immigrate elsewhere


The most well-known Chinese person who can't go back to his own home, has probably got to be the Dalai Lama.
At the time when he fled across the border into India, it was completely within the power of our air force to blow him up, in fact our air force planes at the time even saw him, only Mao Zedong himself decided to let him let him go.

History has proven that letting him go at the time was completely the right decision.

net2003:
既然冯先生选择了那条路,一定是经过深思熟虑的。
至于家庭什么的其它问题,一定是经过考虑了的。用不着我们操心。
我精神上支持他,要鼓起勇气继续走下去。

net2003:

Seeing as how Mr. Feng has chosen the path he has taken, that can only have been after serious contemplation.

As for his family and other such problems, he must have taken those into consideration as well, so it's not worth us sweating over.

I support him, and I encourage him to be brave and continue to carry on.

朝浪无语:
某些人既然喜欢拿美国与中国来对比,但不愿意承认两者之间国情不同。那么我倒想问问:
某人凭什么臆想美国会如何如何?
驱逐出境是不是惩治?禁止入境是不是惩治?美国没有用这几招?何必一厢情愿的给自己圆谎?

Silent Rising Wave:

Since some people like to compare China to America, but aren't willing to admit any difference in national condition between these two countries, I just want to ask:

On what are you basing your conjecture in saying America is such-and-such?

Do you feel that expelling people from the country is a punishment or not? And barring them from entering the country? Hasn't America done precisely both of these things? Why should only one of these countries have to cover up its own hypocrisy?

相逢于海上:
[quote]某些人既然喜欢拿美国与中国来对比,但不愿意承认两者之间国情不同。那么我倒想问问:
某人凭什么臆想美国会如何如何?
驱逐出境是不是惩治?禁止入境是不是惩治?美国没有用这几招?何必一厢情愿的给自己圆谎? …[/quote]
我只知道驱逐出境、禁止入境是针对外国人的
还真没听说这个可以用来对付本国公民

Met on the Sea:

Since some people like to compare China to America, but aren't willing to admit any difference in national condition between these two countries, I just want to ask:

On what are you basing your conjecture in saying America is such-and-such?

Do you feel that expelling people from the country is a punishment or not? And barring them from entering the country? Hasn't America done precisely both of these things? Why should only one of these countries have to cover up its own hypocrisy?


All I know is that deporting or barring people from the country is only used on foreigners.
I've really never heard of this being used on a country's own citizens.

朝浪无语:
[quote]
我只知道驱逐出境、禁止入境是针对外国人的
还真没听说这个可以用来对付本国公民[/quote]
我就知道某些人就是凭主观臆想大放厥词,已经习惯了

Silent Rising Wave:

All I know is that deporting or barring people from the country is only used on foreigners.
I've really never heard of this being used on a country's own citizens.


You see, some people can only resort to subjective assumptions and babble, not like I've never seen that before.

相逢于海上:
只要他没有加入外国国籍
他就是拥有中国国籍的中国公民

Met on the Sea:

As long as he hasn't acquired foreign citizenship
He's still a Chinese citizen with Chinese citizenship

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