China: Is Sarkozy the problem with Sino-French relations?

Global Voices OlympicsOkay, this post comes inspired by GVO Lingua. Bush is coming to the Olympics, but French President Nicolas Sarkozy has pegged his decision on the outcome of talks between Beijing and the Dalai Lama, currently underway. Pending that, many Chinese netizens are now telling Sarkozy not to bother showing up.

This week, Wen Wei Po Paris correspondent Zheng Ruolin critized French President Sarkozy for fumbling Sino-French relations through his stance on Tibet in his ‘A Chinese Journalist’ column on Rue89.com. Seeing that, Sohu blogger ‘Cai Xiongshan’ translated many of the comments (Zheng btw is also a Sohu blogger) left there into Chinese, and here are a few:

21H54 05/07/2008
Avec sa politique bling-bling-n'importe-quoi, Sarkozy va nous facher avec toute la planète.
以萨科奇的浪子策略,他会激怒全球。

With his bling-bling-whatever politics, Sarkozy is going to enrage the world.

21H59 05/07/2008
Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité vous y croyez vous ?
je suis français et cela fait bien longtemps que je n'y crois plus, c'est comme le père Noël.
自由,平等,博爱,你相信吗?我是法国人,我很久不相信了,这就像圣诞老人。

Liberty, Equality, Fraternity, do you believe in all that? I'm French and I haven't believe in those for a long time, might as well be Santa Claus.

M Zheng,
je pense comme vous qu'à force de vouloir jouer sur la corde raide, Sarkozy va réussir à mécontenter tout le monde.
Là où je ne vous suis plus c'est votre conviction que l'opinion Chinoise puisse avoir une influence sur l'opinion Française.
Rappelez vous, lors de l'opposition de Paris à la guerre en Irak, les Américains furent très mécontents de l'attitude Française et on a vu se monter une campagne anti-Française au USA. Malgré cela, si Chirac a eu des mauvais sondages ce n'est certainement pas parce qu'il avait mécontenter les Américains.
En ce qui concerne les touristes Chinois, s'il ne voulaient vraiment ne plus venir en France, on comprend mal alors le pourquoi de ce boycotage officieux de la destination Française sous la pression des autorités Chinoises ? Il s'agit là d'une maneouvre d'intimidation indigne d'une nation qui doit acceuillir les Jeux Olympiques.
Je terminerai sur l'arrogance de vos propos : “Ils veulent du travail, l’augmentation du pouvoir d’achat, la maitrise de l’inflation… Et c’est la Chine qui peut leur apporter tout cela et personne d’autre.”
Il ne faudrait pas que la Chine se fourvoye dans cette illusion. Incapable de maitriser son environnement, elle se croit capable faire la pluie et le beau temps de nos economies, j'ose esperer que cela n'est que votre point de vue.
郑先生,我和你一样认为萨科奇在走钢丝,他将激怒所有人。我所不同意的是你确信中国舆论将影响法国舆论。

提醒您,在伊兰克战争时,美国人对法国人态度很不满意,我们看到一场反法运动在美国。尽管如此,如果当时希拉克的民意调查支持率很低,但那明显不是因为他让美国人不高兴。

关于中国旅游者,如果他们真的不愿来法国,我不能理解为什么中国官方施压抵制法国作为旅游地呢?这是一个即将迎接奥运的国家的恐吓手段。

我以您高傲的言论结束:“他们要工作,提高购买力,控制通货膨胀,中国可以带给他们而不是别人。”中国不应该如此自我陶醉而迷路。目前中国对其环境恶化无能为力,却自信能控制其经济,我斗胆希望这不仅仅是您的观点。

Mr. Zheng, like you I also feel that Sarkozy is walking along a tightrope, and that he stands to anger everyone. What I disagree with is your assurance that Chinese opinion stands to influence French opinion.

I'll have you know that when the war against Iraq began, Americans were quite displeased with the French and we saw an anti-French movement in America. Despite this, opinion polls showed low support for Chirac at the time, but that obviously was not because he had made the Americans unhappy.

As for Chinese tourists, if they really don't wish to come to France, I don't understand why Chinese officials are pushing for a boycott against France as a tourism destination. And these are intimidation tactics coming from a country about to host the Olympics.

I'll end with your arrogant words: “they want jobs, to increase their purchasing power and control currency inflation. China can provide this, but not others.” China ought to not get so lost in such narcissism. At present, China is unable to do anything about degradation of its environment, yet it's confident it can control its economy. I dare hope this is not your view alone.

01H02 06/07/2008
Cher Daniel,
Je pense que dans notre ère mondialisée, les opinions d’un peuple influenceront tôt ou tard un autre, car les informations sur le net n’ont vraiment plus de frontières, et avec nos bonnes volontés et nos sincérités, nous arriverons à vous montrer et démontrer que la réalité du Tibet et de la Chine n’est pas ce qu’on voulait vous faire croire ! La France est quand même le pays de Voltaire, et de Rousseau, elle devait avoir un esprit suffisamment large pour écouter et comprendre les autres civilisations, et pas les rejeter sans connaître réellement la vérité ! J’ai vécu 15 ans ici, et vous voyez, certains (peut-être mes anciens compatriotes) m’accusent encore « ne connaît rien sur votre pays ». Alors je me demande combien de gens ici ont déjà posé le pied sur le sol de mon pays ? Donc expliquer, et discuter dans un esprit égal et ouvert, ça sert toujours quelques choses, et un jour quand un jeune Français connaît le système féodal-servage du Tibet sous la règne de dalaï-lama, on comprendra qui est contre la réforme démocratique en 1956… Et tous les événements depuis s’expliquent automatiquement !

Concernant Ils veulent du travail, l’augmentation du pouvoir d’achat, la maitrise de l’inflation… Et c’est la Chine qui peut leur apporter tout cela et personne d’autre.” C’est vrai, vous avez raison, je suis maladroit, en pensant provoquer un débat il vaut mieux des piques qu’un verre d’eau tiède, je blesse à mon tour les Français, je m’excuse sincèrement ! Mais pour un simple citoyen, c’est une chose, pour un président de la République, il faut agir dans l’intérêt du peuple, non ? Pour les touristes chinois, le gouvernement ne peut qu’interdire les fonctionnaires d’état de venir en France, mais pas d’individus.

Merci pour votre mise en garde, je ferais attention.
亲爱的丹尼尔
我想在我们这个全球化的时代,异国民众舆论或早或迟影响其它国家,因为网上信息传播没有国界。怀着美好愿望及真诚,我们会向你们展现真实的西藏,中国也不仅仅是我们曾想让你相信的中国。法国是伏尔泰的国度,卢梭的国度,她应该有足够的气质去聆听和理解其它的文明,而不是在一无所知的情况下排斥。我在这里生活了15年,您看,有人指责我还是“对你们的国家一无所知”。我问自己你们多少人足迹到过我的祖国?所以,应该在一种平等和开放的精神下解释,讨论,这样或多或少有用,当有一天法国年轻人明白在达赖喇嘛统治下的西藏农奴制度时,人们就会明白是谁反对1956年的民主改革,所有的一切就会不证自明。

关于我说的“他们要工作,提高购买力,控制通货膨胀,不是其它而是中国”对,您有道理,我很愚笨的认为激起这样一场辩论用锋芒毕露比一杯温水好,我伤害了法国人,我真诚道歉。但最为一个简单的国民,是一回事,最为一国之总统,应该以人民利益行事?不是吗?作为中国旅游者,政府紧紧只限制国家公务员来法国,并没有禁止个人。

Dear Daniel,
I think that in this globalized age of ours, public opinion in foreign countries soon or later does affect other countries, because for online information spread there are no borders. Given an honest and sincere desire, we will be able to show you that the true Tibet and China are not what you would have yourselves believe! France is the country of Voltaire, of Rousseau, and she ought to have enough presence to go listen and understand other civilizations, and not reduce herself to knowing nothing. I've lived here for 15 years, you see, and people still accuse me of knowing nothing about your country. I ask myself how many of you have set foot in my motherland? Which is why I ought to be of level and open mind as I explain and discuss, that to do so is more or less useful, and when one day comes that French youth understand the serfdom that is Tibet as ruled by the Dalai Lama, people will then understand just who it was that opposed the 1956 democratic reforms, and everything will become self-evident.

As for what I said “they want jobs, to increase their purchasing power and control currency inflation. China can provide this, but not others.” Yes, you make a good point, I very foolishly felt that making a spectacle to set off this debate would be better than something mundane, and in the process I hurt the French people and for that I am truly sorry. But, being a simple citizen is one thing; being a nation's president who ought to act in the people's interest is another, no? As a Chinese tourist, the government at most can only restrict civil servants from coming to France, but it cannot prohibit individuals.

09H05 06/07/2008
Dans les pays dits “non démocratiques”, la plupart des
gens savent qu'il y de la propagande officielle
Par contre dans un pays dit ‘démocratique”comme la France, la plupart des gens croient qu'il n'y a pas de
propagande officielle ! mais c'est pire , c'est plus vicieux, car “la propagande”est distillée par les médias à la solde de gros groupes financiers !
Enfin , soyons fiers de nos médias français indépendants et donnons des leçons à la Chine !
在一个 非民主国家,大部分人知道有官方宣传。相反,在一个所谓的民主国家,如法国,大部分人认为没有官方宣传。这更糟糕,更缺陷,因为宣传被支持媒体的财团所控制。

最后,为法国的媒体独立而自豪吧,给中国人上课!

In an “undemocratic” country, most people know that there is official propaganda. On the other hand, in a so-called “democracy” such as France, most people feel that there is no official propaganda. This is even worse, messed up, because propaganda is controlled by corporations which support the media.

Finally, let's be proud of France's independent media, and show the Chinese a lesson!

12H10 06/07/2008
C'est assez drôle, quand Mr Zheng Ruolin exprime son avis, on lui rappelle tout de suite que la Chine n'est pas la France, et quand France, on peut critiquer allégrement le Président sans rien risquer.
Mais il y a quelque chose que je ne comprends pas, bien que je lise et que je relise cet article et tous ceux traitant plus ou moins du même sujet : pourquoi les relations entre la France et la Chine passionnent-elles tout le monde à ce point? Ca frise l'hystérie. Peut-être parce qu'en France nous avons de belles valeurs, de beaux idéaux, une Révolution dont on oublie souvent le caractère sanguinaire ? Peut-être à cause des restes de l'ancienne politique néo-colonialiste, qui fait que les pays européens et la France en particulier aiment à rappeller à tout bout de champ à quel point nous sommes sages et démocrates ?
Et puis, pourquoi taper à ce point sur la France (qui l'a peut-être un peu cherché) quand il y a pas si longtemps à l'échelle de l'Univers les Anglais ont déclenché une guerre en Chine pour contrôler les routes de l'opium ?
很奇怪,郑先生发表他的观点,我们提醒他中国不是法国,在法国我们可以激励批评总统而没有任何危险。
但有些东西我不理解,虽然我重复读了这篇文章,或多或少是一个主题:“为什么中法关系如此让所有人热衷呢?”到了杰斯蒂里的地步。可能因为在法国,我们有好的价值,我们的思想,我们的大革命。可能由于殖民历史,让欧洲国家及法国尤其喜欢回忆起我们的明智和民主。
然而,为什么这一点紧紧抓住法国呢?英国不是对中国发动了鸦片战争为了控制鸦片输入吗?

It's rather strange that when Mr. Zheng expresses his opinion, we remind him that China is not France, that in France we can encourage criticism of the president without being in any danger.
But there are some things that I don't understand, despite repeated readings of this article, namely the topic: “why does Sino-French relations get everyone so worked up?” To the point of hysteria. Perhaps because in France, we have good values, we have thoughts, our Great Revolution. Perhaps it's due to colonial history that European countries including France are so keen to recall our wisdom and democracy.
So, why has this point gripped France? Didn't England launch the Opium War against China to control the flow of Opium?

22H57 05/07/2008
Monsieur Zheng,Je suis abusolutement d'accords avec vous!Sarkozy doit reflechir.Il ne faut pas toujour traiter les affaires chinoises dans une maniere francaise.Aujourd'dui,la Chine,est capable de dire “non” dans le monde,pourquoi pas?!
Cest vrais,La Chine a beacoup de problemes,mais la Chine s'ameliorer toujours. Il faut fair les francais connaitre mieux la Chine ,sinon,ils pensent que la Chine est toujour a l'epoque de Mao.
Je suis alle a l'universite a paris pour communiquer avec les etudiants .Il y a des etudiants qui ne savent pas ou es tibet sur le plan de la Chine,mais lls parlent Tibet comme specialistes.Ce n'est pas responsable!
Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité on veut bien ,mais il ne faut pas jouer double jeu au nom de Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité .
Le peuple chinois ne accepte jamai ca !
郑先生,我完全同意你的观点,萨克奇应该反省下。不能总是用法国人的方式来看待中国问题。今天,中国有能力说“不”,为什么不呢?
是的,中国有很多的问题,但中国一直在改进。应该让更多的法国人了解中国,否则,他们都以为中国还是处于毛泽东时代。
我曾经去法国大学和大学生交流,有的学生都不知道西藏在中国地图哪里,但谈起西藏问题就像专家一样,这是不负责任的。
自由,平等,博爱,我们中国人也想要。但不应该以自由,平等,博爱之名去耍政治手腕。中国人民决不接受!

Mr. Zheng, I absolutely agree with you, Sarkozy ought to reconsider. One can't always look upon China from a French perspective. Today, China has the ability to say “No.” And why not?!
Yes, China does have many problems, but China has always been improving. More French people need to better understand China, or else they will all think China is still stuck in the Mao era.
I once went to a French university to talk to the students, and some didn't know where Tibet was on a map of China, but they still spoke about Tibet like they were experts. This is irresponsible.
Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, us Chinese want these too. But one ought not to play political stunts in the name of Liberty, Equality and Fraternity. The Chinese people will definitely not stand for it!

And here's just one comment from the 140+ others left on Xiongshan's post:

自由、民主、博爱,多么令人陶醉的字眼!可是,这和一个国家和民族的发展和文化传统相关。如果不是8过联军的入侵,如果没有列强的瓜分,如果没有那么多的赔偿,那么自由、民主、博爱可能我们早已经走在了他们的前面。难道他们忘记了自己曾经是怎样的一个不知道羞耻的侵略者吗?拿走我们的黄金白银,然后给我们鸦片,是我们的民族饱受压迫和饥饿,屈辱、落后曾经和我们相伴那么久,难道是我们自己的过错吗?我们的人民生活刚刚走向繁荣富强的道路,也是我们努力勤奋的成绩。他们就说三道四,为什么呢?他们害怕什么呢?难道这就是他们的“自由、民主、博爱”的象征吗?这就是他们的“人权宣言”吗?我不明白这是怎样的一个逻辑?都不知道《诗经》是那朝那代,却对它的内容大加歪曲评判,不知道我们的西藏在中国的什么地方,却对其历史和地位枉加评说,不觉得可笑吗?这是标准的强权政治的产物!

Liberty, Democracy and Fraternity, what intoxicating words! But, this is related to a country and its people's growth and cultural traditions. If it weren't for the invasion of the eight-power allied forces, if the Powers hadn't partitioned, if there hadn't been so much compensation, then we might just have had Liberty, Democracy and Fraternity a whole lot sooner. Have they really forgotten that they were once shameless invaders? They took our gold and silver and gave us opium in return, the reason our people were oppressed, starving, humiliated and backwards in comparison to our neighbors for so long. Are we supposed to think that that was our fault? Our people have just set out on the road toward prosperity and wealth, the fruits of our hard work and diligence. They're just blabbing nonsense, and why? What are they afraid of? Is this supposed to be the symbol of their “liberty, democracy and fraternity?” Is this their “declaration of human rights”? It's this logic that I really don't understand. The don't even know which dynasty or period the Book of Odes is from, but they can sure distort and criticize what's in it. They don't know where our Tibet is on a Chinese map, but they can twist its history and get its location wrong. Don't you think that's silly? This is the standard stuff of realpolitik!

14 comments

  • Kai

    Great post, Kennedy.

    That last person got it wrong. We Chinese ought to blame ourselves for our complacent arrogance as the world’s oldest culture and civilization that allowed the European powers to industrializes and become powerful enough that they could indeed force open trade, enslave our ignorant masses with opium, and, you know, get our gold and silver in return. If we hadn’t allowed our glorious country to stagnate with ineffective rulers, persistent internal conflict, and a social framework that valued conformity to the detriment of innovation, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t have been so weak when those white barbarians came to take advantage of us.

    So yes, those evil European invaders were pretty mean but…if we couldn’t protect ourselves, then ultimately who is responsible? The Japanese, Nationalists, and eventually the Communists understood what had to change for an Asian country to protect itself, its interests, and then project its own interests in the face of European imperialists. Our mistake was not changing sooner. For that, we ought to accept our fair share.

    We can remind the French of their hypocrisy and their idiocy, but we should be careful not to make the same mistakes, believing we ought to blame all but ourselves.

    All great powers eventually fall beneath the weight of their own self-perceived immutable grandeur. This was true of China in the past, potentially true for America, and always true for anyone that forgets it.

    I still like French Fries though.

  • Knights

    Sarkozy is a whore, yes I said “whore”, because he’s NOT man enough to be “son of a bitch”

    LOL

    I still like French fries, French wines . . . .

  • cerebus

    “Liberty, Equality and Fraternity, us Chinese want these too.”

    Hah!

    Then start by distinguishing your friends from your enemies. The CPC is not your friend. Every word of fenqing nationalist drivel you waste on the Internet strengthens the CPC. Ben dan.

  • Knights

    Sorry I forgot to mention Sarkozy is Bush’s whore. At least Bush is man enough to be “SON of a BITCH”

  • Lova

    Thas was an intriguing read, John. Thank you for linking to Zheng Ruolin and Cai Xiongshan’s blogs.

  • Sorkozy is a sell out, he knows the difference between right and wrong but he will go to the O ceremony to appease his trading partners. Who will threaten their trade relations with China and take a stand for human rights and help the oppressed?

  • Here is a great essay thanks to CDT

    For the Sake of Human Dignity, Let’s Rise Up On the Internet!

    http://tinyurl.com/5fprz8

    It’s old you might have already read it but it’s great cause it shows that their are reasonnable and dignified Chinese people and tha they are not all brainwashed (- : Of course we knew that already, just jokin’

  • Welco

    Sarkozy is caught between a rock and a hard place.
    Chinese blame him for being on the side of the activists.
    Activists blame him for selling out, and attending the Olympics.

    Unlike an authoritarian country like China, France is democratic where the people controls the President and not the other way around. So he was’nt responsible for the activists’ actions and was even kind enough to apologize on their behalf.

  • Kai

    @ carryanne:

    Answer these questions:

    1. Is China and are the lives of the average Chinese person BETTER or WORSE than before, when other countries refused to engage it in the international community?

    2. Would the OPPRESSED in China be better off with the international community continually engaging an opening, developing, reforming China or would they be better off is China is spurned and isolated by the world (a la North Korea)?

  • chan

    @kai #1
    “We Chinese ought to blame ourselves for our complacent arrogance as the world’s oldest culture and civilization that allowed the European powers to industrializes and become powerful enough that they could indeed force open trade, enslave our ignorant masses with opium, and, you know, get our gold and silver in return. If we hadn’t allowed our glorious country to stagnate with ineffective rulers, persistent internal conflict, and a social framework that valued conformity to the detriment of innovation, maybe, just maybe, we wouldn’t have been so weak when those white barbarians came to take advantage of us. ”
    I think it should be not just blaming, it should be a lesson learned so that improvement could be make and never repeat such mistake.And, keep and pass this lesson learned to all generations !

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