Back in 2007, I came across the inspiring blog of a girl named Ghawayesh who says the she is “an Egyptian living in Europe but her heart stayed back home.” She explained to her visitors the meaning of Ghawayesh saying:
“Ghawayesh means bracelets. In my context it symbolizes the cuffs of my culture. I don't know if I like them or hate them.”
One particular post about Egyptian women getting married to foreign men caught my attention.
In her post about The Whores, Ghawayesh starts by saying:
“Times are changing and many ‘respected’ families have come to accept the fact that their daughters can make their own choices of choosing to marry whoever they want, if they EVER CHOOSE to marry, which is also a new trend in Egypt.”
She then explains an interesting fact about the psyche of Egyptian males who falsely believe
“that they are superior to males of other nationalities. When an Egyptian male opts for a foreign wife, then he's a winner and a stud and God's gift to her and she should be so thankful for his eternal tantrums and malignant ego. And their children are the most beautiful in the whole wide extended family only because their mommy is Blondie and so they are!”
Ghawayesh points out how double standards apply to the reversed scenario:
“Once an Egyptian woman chooses for a foreign husband, then she's a whore and her family is low class and she has done it only because she failed to win the lottery of marrying a super Egyptian man, so the poor soul opted for a second best who sadly happens to love her and understand her and respect her and not lie to her and actually goes as far as flossing his teeth for her!”
The witty blogger takes her analysis to the next level and examines the religious/legal prerequisites. She notes:
“If a non-Muslim foreign man decides to marry a Muslim Egyptian woman, he will have to convert first. But converts will always be accused of being untrue or incomplete Muslims. Be it for matrimonial purposes or for otherwise, a convert is never good enough for the ‘true Arab Muslims.’ Like Islam is a genetic trait or something. Only God knows that most of those born-Muslims are God's lowest rank hypocrites, and that God is the true judge for what's in our heart.”
Finally she moves on to advise non-Muslim men who wish to marry Muslim Egyptian women saying:
1- Marrying an Egyptian Muslim woman is not easy. You are aware that you are making a sacrifice and a commitment for life, aren't you? You have to understand what it means to convert before you do. I have sadly seen how several women and men who converted for their summer flings and later on ended up in an identity crisis and several conflicts about their children's affiliation. Let alone those stories/nightmares of kidnapping children and disappearing without a trace.
I don't know how strict your partner is, but you might have fights over your having an alcoholic drink or about the origins of a funny looking sandwich that could say oink if it was alive. You could get offended and take it personally that she doesn't want you to kiss her sometimes for you don't know that she has just washed and on the way to pray and is supposed to stay ‘unsullied’ until she does her prayer. Those small misinterpretations can create lots of tension if you're not ready for them.
2- The financial issues are something typical of our culture. The real reason why families ask for lots of money and a house for the bride, is simply the fact that men can be untrustworthy ‘if taken only at face value,’ and when they make financial commitments, they become more serious.
You can sit with her dad and explain to him what you have, and that you will be willing to offer her the best you can afford, and yes, everything in Egypt is negotiable, even this issue! And if they turn you down because you can't afford some bricks in Cairo where cockroaches will have a blast while you're gone most of the year, then save yourself the trouble and let them cry over their lost roaches.
3- You have the right to wonder about female circumcision. Statistics say that 97% of the Egyptian women are circumcised. I am an Egyptian woman who studied Medicine and do not know of any woman in my family who was, but did see many circumcised women while I was practicing medicine in Egypt. Circumcision comes with certain social classes and you have every right to know whether your future wife is circumcised or not and in what way this might have affected her psychology.
Unfortunately the same question applies to you! There is a misunderstanding that circumcision of males is an Islamic obligation, which is not. It is mandatory in Judaism and strongly recommended FOR MALES ONLY in Islam, but you won't go to hell if you kept some foreskin and kept it clean.
You have to be ready for such a personal question from your partner, or even her dad, and I think they would appreciate a serious answer about your extra skin situation!
4- Be ready for racist behavior in Egypt. Your wife will be insulted for marrying you. She will be called a prostitute and will be asked on which street corner of which resort you had picked her up. They will say oh she married a foreign because she was too old to marry an Egyptian, the poor thing! Yeah better than being alone for the rest of her life!
Maybe you will not be told this to your face, but you also need to know that some Egyptians would give you the best treatment and call you their ‘best friend’ after having known you for 5 minutes, and once you turn your back they will stab you with the biggest virtual knife there is.
Egyptians have a long way to go before they learn to live and let live. Please beware of that.
Today, I ran into a very special Wandering Scarab, who says that she is “one more Egyptian living in Canada”. Like Ghawayesh, she is an Egyptian girl who chose to get married to a foreigner.
In her post about the Egyptian system for the new ID card, the Wandering Scarab shares with us her adventure in the Land of the Pharaohs to get her ID.
“As usual, upon my visit to Egypt, my parents explained to me the necessity of having a social number even though I didn't think I needed it as I do not intend to ever live in Egypt. But they insisted I will need it when the time comes for inheritance and what not after they pass away. So off we went to apply.”
“Later that day I picked up the application to determine what I needed to submit to get the damn social number that my parents think is very important. Besides my full name, address, date of birth, and place of birth the application also required my occupational status, marital status, and educational status. So I inquired as to how I can go about providing all that information given the fact that I live and work elsewhere.”
People helped her with the following advice to provide for the needed information:
“Occupational Status
I must obtain a certificate of employment from my employer, which includes the address and name of my employer in Canada and have it officially translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy in Cairo.Educational Status
I must obtain a certificate from my university that proves I graduated with a Bachelor's degree also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.Marital Status
I must obtain a marriage certificate valid in Egypt also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.So far it was all possible although it was a big feat. One wrinkle; because my husband is Canadian (a foreigner) we have to submit more information. In order for the authorities in Egypt to give us an Egyptian marriage certificate equivalent to our Canadian one, my husband would have to obtain a certificate of employment from his employer that details not only his name and address, but also his age, income, and social insurance number, oh and yeah, also translated and notarized by the Canadian Embassy.
In addition, because I am Muslim, my husband has to obtain a “Certificate of Embracing the Islamic Faith” from Al-Azhar, (yeah yeah also translated and notarized). Without the certificate from Al-Azhar we could not get the certificate of marriage. But my dear husband was persuaded to join the madness and agreed to go to Al-Azhar and indeed got the little piece of paper that said he is a good little Muslim.
None of that stuff upset me. The thing that bothered me most is the fact that upon clarification, I learned that if I was an Egyptian male, none of that applied even if my wife was a foreigner. I insisted that I will not take part in anything that devalues and dehumanizes women like that, contrary to my parents advice.”
The infuriated Wandering Scarab hit the kind of brick walls that we – Egyptians – face everyday whenever we need a license, passport, ID, or a replacement for any document or certificate we once had.
How did the story end?
“Two days later I had my Egyptian social number. My parents had taken the easy way out. As far as the Egyptian government is concerned I am single (never married), did not receive education (illiterate), and unemployed (complete and utter loser).”
87 comments
Melody, Hi, i have returned from Egypt. I must say that being Muslim is a good thing. It has been for me anyway. I am sure your daughter isn’t old enough to marry. I know it is hard to know what to do for teenaage daughters. Whatever you do will somehow be the wrong thing. Try to learn as much as you can about the religion. Ask her to explain to you what she is learning about. It is important part of the faith if someone wants to learn about Muslim to teach them. Also, you are the most important person in her life.Islam teach this. So be sure that she is following the relgion for the right reasons & that she is following it properly. Her Egyptian man will wait for her to be ready, if he loves her. Yes, they can be very charming. Yes they can be really nice. But, you don’t really know someone ’til you have spent time alone with them. 17y.o.? it’ll be far to dangerous for her to travel to Egypt alone. Maybe try to listen to her & understand her view point. Try to encourage her to finish her education ‘cos it will be better for her. & maybe try to plan to go with her to Egypt. Once she is there she may well open her eyes more easily if she thinks she has your support. Don’t push her away. No matter how difficult it is. Just love her more when she deserves it the least ‘cos that is when she needs it the most. Egypt does have a spiritual kind of calling, tho. I know this for a fact. I hope you make the right choices for your family. Best of luck. If she goes she may never come back. She may not be allowed to if she marries him she has no rights by Egyptian law. So, I have been told by am Egyptian friend of mine.
hi penolope
i would like to ask u how u converted to islam as i am in love with a foreigner and i am muslim
we are thinking about getting married and how can i convince dad and mom with him
also how much it will cost to get married in egypt
thanks
hi penolope
i would like to ask u how u converted to islam as i am in love with a foreigner and i am muslim
we are thinking about getting married and how can i convince dad and mom with him
also how much it will cost to get married in egypt
thanks
Nalalos, contact your local Islam Muslim community to find out about the religion, everything you can find out. there is a book called the meaning of the holy Qur’an by Abdullah Yusuf’Ali try to get a copy of it. The man must be able to afford to pay the cost of the marriage. If he cannot then he will not be able to support & there fore will not be an honourable Muslim. I am in love with my man yes. Finding out long term that although very charming they are not all good. Get to know the religion before you revert to Muslim. & make sure it is something you wish to follow if things don’t work out with this man. Don’t rush into anything you may regret. I dont know how old you are or you lifestlye, I am only telling you from my experience. My man has toltal control of me & I am under his spell & in love with him very much. Yes. I used to be a totally independant woman. & am now fully subissive to my Ahmed. It is a big change for me. If you marry him you will have no rights & may not ever be able to leave Egypt, if he doesn’t allow it. You may never see your family again. Just really consider the lifestyle choices you are making & fully understand what you are getting yourself into. I’d say to go with your parents to Egypt if you do decide to meet him. You need to be safe. As for being Muslim, it is the most wonderful religous experience I have ever had.
thanks Penelope for ur reply
but sorry that i didnt explain it better
as i am the Egyptian and my man is from Hungary and i am muslim , i was asking about a way that i can tell him about islam ….
i really appreciate that u answered me back…. as i was saying that how can i convince my family and i dont mind leaving egypt
by the way i am 22 years old and he is 26
its like ur story except that i am the egyptian muslim party here
and i would like also to know about ur experience of becoming muslim and how u find it , tell me more about how u got convinced that u worship allah and to obey him
i would really appreciate it more if u told me so i can tell my Gabor
thanks penelope
Just a quick note to Nalalos, personally I was raised with very religous family history. great grand daughter of the first minister for the first Church of Crist in Australia. also, my other grandparents were practicing German Lutherns. I went to a private girls catholic school & as an adult I did continue my journey to discover what our is the meaning the purpose for my existence. From the age of 5y.o. I have had many near death experiences & spoken to someone who has passed over, who sends me back. & have always known & spoken to Him our lord, & he has always helped me & brings good people to me, to guide me. I did not know about Muslim beliefs until I met Ahmed. Ahmed was my reason to learn about Islam Muslim. I only initially wanted to learn about to understand Ahmed better. Then I came to understand that the Qur’an & the faith is really a follow on from what i was to believe. That Allah is a nicer word than God. Those who believe in a higher being & the creation of the universe with the scientific proof have no reason to dismiss that the Qur’an is the book to consult. Mohammed should have many blessings for bringing that knowledge to us. The bible by all accounts has too many incosistencies. However, the Qur’an as i understand it, is a clean clear cut way to look at the facts & know how to live a good peaceful life. The Muslim family I lived with & became a part of, in Egpt, where the most loving people I have ever met & they want me to live with them forever as they feel the same towards me. All my life he lord has been there for me & I feel he made it possible for me to go to Egypt & will bring me there again, to enjoy the real love, the heart of Egypt & to learn how to be Islam Muslim to better show him my greatitude. I have many reasons to be thankful to Allah, for he has made everything perfect for me. Even with all the bad things that have happenend in my life I am still alive & the bad things were, I believe, just to remind me that Allah is pretecting me. At the end of the day I know I am safe & that Allah keeps me safe. I am free to follow my heart because of the protection of Allah. As for convincing your parents of you Marrying a foreigner. Well, first I don’t know your parents. So, I don’t know how they feel about foreigners. facts to consider. Be honest with them about your feelings for him. I don’t know where he is from. You ust have to get approval from his consulate which should just take a few days & then you both go to the Egypt consulate & have the marriage certificate application signed by the witnesses. All done. Then you can have your party. As you are over 18y.o there is no reason you cannot marry him. If he comes to meet your parents & they see how much he loves you & his willingness to look after you then I think they may make the suggestion that you marry. Fact to consider. Are children in your desires for your future? If so as long as he is willing to let you raise you children Mulim then Allah doesn’t disapprove of his nationality. Also, fact, if you are fully Egyptian & were to procate with someone else who is fully Egyptian then you run the risk of having children who have Genetic mutation. Simply to have healthy children you are more likely to do so with a forgein partner ‘cos it will strengthen your childrens genes. So it will ensure they have healthier grand children. Allah wants you to be happy. Allah made it possible for you to meet this man. If you both have the real love continue with the journey with this man. HYou have one life. Make it a happy life. As for your parents their first reation might not be the best, but, they may change their minds after they get to know him. And you are allowed to decide who you wish to marry. So, don’t let anyone tell yuo otherwise. You are a woman & you need to be protected to continue your faith & be with someone you choose to protect you. At the end of the day what are you other options? Can you truly thank Allah for your life if you feel that something in your life isn’t right? You need to explore this option with this man or you may not find your happiness. Just random thoughts. Not sure if they asre helpful at all. Just my heart specking to you with how I feel. At the end of the day consider all that is in front of you & may Allah bless you with peace, love & happiness all the days of your life. Happy days, happy dreams.
i dont know how i can thank u penelope , u r a great person and i wish i can meet u in real life…..yes i got a lot of power when i started reading ur words , how u felt and how u chose every thing ,,
really i appreciate ur answer back , u dont know how i was confused , i am not a big fan of the forums , but at the end i thought it could help me to find some ppl who went through this before ,,, and i have meet u as the nicest person ever bothered her self replying back
from all over my heart thank u
i want to be in touch with u , and here always good news about u and ur family
Nalalos, I’ll be in Egypt in February for maybe three months, maybe we’ll be able to meet when I am there? Cheers, Penelope
message 4 penelope, i wanted to know how things turned out for u, thx
Jayne, will keep posting updates as they happen, will have more news after my next visit to Egypt. Next month. Don’t have anything else to report, at this stage.