China: Nationalism vs. nationalism in Korea · Global Voices
John Kennedy

It feels like trampling on an already well-trampled Chinese flag at this point as millions have begun their Olympic host celebrations on the mainland, but carrying on from an earlier post, here is how discussion over the actions of a few Chinese students who resorted to violence as the torch passed through Korea earlier this month looked on popular blogger He Caitou's May 3 post, ‘Nationalism vs. nationalism’:
中国留学生在韩国奥运火炬传递过程中殴打了韩国人，原因据说是对方支持雪山狮子旗，而且撕毁了一面中国国旗。当天就有留学生把现场照片发上了网络，当事人迅速被韩国警方逮捕。目前，在韩国的部分中国留学生发出了SOS信号，请求帮助。因为这件事，他们遭到了警方的盘查，受到了韩国狂热民族分子的威胁。也因为这件事，韩国政府表示要在签证政策上更加严厉，危及了所有在韩华人和留学生的切身利益。
昨天晚上，一位大哥在MSN上问我：有没有可能政府出面把那个同学从监狱里弄出来？我说，看看克林顿当年。1993年，15岁的美国学生迈克菲在新加坡因破坏交通指示牌和在二十多辆轿车上喷漆涂鸦，被宣判鞭打6下、监禁4个月。该案在美国掀起轩然大波，当时的美国总统克林顿亲自恳请赦免这名少年。最后鞭刑继续执行，但减至4下。
Last night, one buddy asked me on MSN, is there any chance the government will step in to get that one kid out from prison? I said, look what Clinton did in 1993 when 15 year-old American student Michael Fay was sentenced to six lashes with a cane and four months in prison for stealing road signs and spray-painting graffiti on over twenty cars. This incident created a huge uproar in the US, and Clinton himself requested this youth be pardoned. In the end the caning was carried out, but reduced to four lashes.
新加坡是主权国家，无论是国民还是客人，在它的领土上就必须遵守它的法律。美国是世界第一强国，但是无权更改新加坡的法律。面子可以给，那就是优惠两鞭，但是打还得打，否则新加坡就成为美国的一个州了。韩国也是主权国家，也有法律。客居此地的中国留学生在一次和平活动中出手打人，而且殴打的是本国国民，那么也就必须下狱，接受他个人行为带来的后果。对中国人来说，这种事情不好受。就像孩子在家里没有管教好，出门让外人教训。但是，这也是没有办法的事情。
在韩国，这个问题又要特别一点。韩国人的民族主义倾向在亚洲乃至世界都出了名，而中国又是它的强邻。现在发生这种事情，很难预测事情会朝什么方向发展。在韩国，在日本，突然出现无数面五星红旗，把奥运火炬传递变成了中国人展示本国强大的平台，作为主人怕都会有点想法吧？奥运是全世界的盛会，但是在伦敦和巴黎传递之后，所经之地都变成了红旗的海洋。这种对于火炬的“护卫”，演变成奥运专属中国，怕和奥运的宗旨有违背的地方吧？
Because this was in Korea, this is a bit of a unique problem. Korean nationalism is well-known throughout Asia and even the world, and then you have China, its stronger neighbor. Now that something like this has happened, it's hard to predict which way things will go. In Korea, in Japan, countless numbers of Chinese flags suddenly appeared, turning the Olympic torch relation into a platform for the Chinese people to display the strength of their nation, so of course the hosts would be a bit edgy. The Olympics are an occasion that belong to the world, but after the torch passed through London and Paris, every place it has touched down in thereafter has become a sea of red flags. “Defending” the torch like this makes the Olympics effectively belong to China, and don't you think that violates the goal of the Olympics just a little?
这种情况下，事件升级为暴力冲突，客人殴打主人，韩国人会如何反应？对于打人的留学生，我觉得该怎么处罚就怎么处罚，只要保证他得到了应有的辩护就好了。但是，对于可能出现的针对华人和留学生的压力，政府应该要做应对的预案，以确保他们在韩的财产和人身安全不受侵害，合法权利不受威胁。相信韩国政府也应该明白这一点，在韩国固然有华人，但是韩国人在青岛、北京、上海的人数也不少。
在对伦敦“红衣大侠”暴力行为的一片赞誉声中，大家是不是滑得太远了一点？用拳头做沟通的方式，是不是放诸四海皆准？在这种喧嚣之中，本可以说话的人甚至转变态度去附和，而不是提醒和批评。我觉得这是不正常的，最终的结果还是所有人一起来买单。强大有很多种表现形式，但是弄到鬼憎神厌，鸡犬不宁，周围的邻居都反感，怕不是什么好事。
With all the praise for the “Red Knight's” violent behavior in London, could people be taking this a little too far? Fists as means of communication, does that really work in every situation? Amidst all this noise, people who used to have something to say have now changed tune and are just going with it, and not issuing warnings or criticism. I don't think this is normal. The end result will be that everyone ends up paying the price. Big and strong can be expressed in a number of different ways, but pissing everybody the hell off to the extent of agitating our neighboring countries, I'm afraid isn't such a good thing.
Selected comments on He Caitou's post:
1.   郭巨虾 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 4:16 pm
让此事冷下去吧。。再发展起来 对谁都没好处
2. 壹杂志 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 4:22 pm
我们总是在自己的出发点很好的时候，做一些结果很坏的事情。其实看看香港的火炬传递过程，我们也许会发现，国内的民族理智进程还有很长的路要走。
3. hehe Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 4:38 pm
我看＜朝鲜日报＞的社论，针对我外交部发言人的回应，感觉他们有点酸，意思就是＂如果中国留学生在美国、法国打人了，中国外交部肯定不会这样反应＂，另一方面又说要反省＂自己到底做了什么，让中国这样对待自己＂….
呵呵，总之感觉怪怪的，称不上他们有民族主义情绪，反倒像是小老婆被打了，觉得”如果我是大老婆就不会如何如何”，又反思”我是不是做什么对不起老公的事情了…
http://chn.chosun.com/site/data/html_dir/2008/05/01/20080501000016.html
Hah, overall I just strange; it's not so much their nationalist sentiment as it is like the concubine, having just been beaten, saying ‘if I was the main wife, things wouldn't be like this, etc.,’ and then wondering, ‘is it because my husband thinks I did something wrong…?’
6. buguanqita Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 5:15 pm
我觉得，红衣大侠的英勇行为是在向西方人生动地论证“汉人压迫藏人”的观点。
7. 发情期？ Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 5:22 pm
为什么偏偏在韩国就打人，在美国和日本就未见打人事件呢？这是不是说他们生于淮北则为枳，被那里的人影响了呢？
我就很不明白留哪里不好为什么要留韩国呢？那里有什么好呀？
9. yan50 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 5:54 pm
我不极端，但是我还是要说，说到底还是国力不够强大。美军士兵在韩国作奸犯科的不是一次两次了，韩国政府有这么叫嚣过吗？韩国人对于中国人踢了韩国人一脚，美国人强奸韩国妇女的反应似乎不太对称。
欢迎批评指正。
I welcome criticisms and critiques.
10. 管智鹏 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 6:00 pm
在韩国，在日本，突然出现无数面五星红旗，把奥运火炬传递变成了中国人展示本国强大的平台，….所经之地都变成了红旗的海洋。……演变成奥运专属中国，怕和奥运的宗旨有违背的地方吧？
博主的话很对。试想如果日本举办奥运，全中国都插上小日本的旗子，国人肯定会有闹事儿的。
11. KIA Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 6:48 pm
国家最多帮他出钱请个律师吧
15. 看不惯 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 7:31 pm
我不极端，但是我还是要说，说到底还是国力不够强大。美军士兵在韩国作奸犯科的不是一次两次了，韩国政府有这么叫嚣过吗？韩国人对于中国人踢了韩国人一脚，美国人强奸韩国妇女的反应似乎不太对称。
同意9楼
旁观者的冷静有时候跟冷漠只有一步之遥
我非常能体谅打人者当时的情绪
试想,如果大街上有个棒子突然指着你说:你妈不守妇道.
你怎么反应
a.撸袖子干人
b.面带微笑的跟棒子坐下来,摆事实,讲道理,证明你妈其实基本上还是守妇道的
一个正常男人都会选a吧
同样,一个把祖国视为母亲,当面对有人抢夺撕毁国旗
你怎么反应
…….
Spectators’ silence is only just a step away from apathy.
I can totally forgive those who hit people for their emotions at the time.
Just think, if a gook came up to you on the street and pointed at you and said ‘your mother lacks virtue,’ how would you respond?
a) Roll up your sleeves and whack the person;
b) Keep smiling and sit down the gook, explain the facts, apply reasoning, and prove that your mother for the most part still maintains virtue?
A normal man would choose A
Similarly, if you see your country as their mother, and someone grabs your national flag and rips it up right in your face
How would you respond?
……..
16. 和菜头 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 7:38 pm
你有本事在韩国驻军的话，你的士兵犯事，一样是在你的军事法庭而非当地刑事或者民事法庭上审理。
此外，不要简单类比。如果2012年，日本举行奥运会。火炬经过中国，满上海街头全是日文人狂舞太阳旗。你上去举旗，要求冲绳和那霸独立，被日本留学生打了一顿，又会怎样？
Furthermore, don't go making such simple analogies. Say it's 2012 and Japan's hosting the Olympics. The torch is passing through China, and the streets are completely filled with Japanese people crazily waving the red sun flag. You go and raise a flag demanding independence for Okinawa and Nawa, and get a beating from Japanese international students, what would you do then?
19. yan50 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 8:15 pm
我不是抬杠，你也别生气。我觉得你的类比似乎比我的更简单。
我不是说韩国人处理中国学生有什么不妥之处。我只是想说韩国人觉得中国人对待韩国与对待英美不平等的时候，他们内心就没把自己放在平等的位置上。
我也不赞成暴力行为。你说的伦敦“红衣大侠”，他在喷泉池里打那个ZD分子的时候，我就站在水池边上。我周围有很多中国人大声叫好，我没有，确切的说我很羞愧。但是我理解他们的行为，在那种万人集会的场合，情绪很容易失控，更何况对方的行为也不见得文明到哪里去。我觉得表达方式不同是一件正常的事情，有人本身就脾气暴躁，而有些人则不易激动。所以我不会对他们说你们错了，我只想对他们说以后不论做什么事别那么暴躁。
欢迎批评指正。
I'm not saying there was anything inappropriate in the way the Koreans handled the Chinese students. I just want to say that since the Koreans feel that Chinese people have treated Koreans differently from how they treated the British and the Americans, it's because they don't see themselves as being on equal footing with Britain or America.
I don't condone the violence either. The “Red Knight” you mention, when he was beating the Free Tibetter in the fountain there, I was standing right beside it. There were Chinese people all around me cheering him on, but I didn't, and to be more precise I was quite ashamed. But I can understand their behavior, with the tens of thousands of people gathered there, it's quite easy for emotions to go overboard, not to mention that the other side's behavior wasn't civilized in the least. I think it's normal for there to be differing means of expression, some people just have hot tempers, and others aren't easily agitated. That's why I'm unable to say that they were wrong, but I would like to tell them from now on to not be so hot-headed
I welcome criticisms and critiques.
20. yan50 Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 8:29 pm
试想,如果大街上有个棒子突然指着你说:你妈不守妇道.
你怎么反应
a.撸袖子干人
b.面带微笑的跟棒子坐下来,摆事实,讲道理,证明你妈其实基本上还是守妇道的
一个正常男人都会选a吧
————————————
15楼的比喻挺黑色幽默的。
当那个ZD站在高处洋洋得意地喊”China lie, people die”的时候，我想在场的所有中国人都憋了一肚子火。“红衣大侠”错在他不是高干，他也敢那么暴躁。
a) Roll up your sleeves and whack the person;
b) Keep smiling and sit down the gook, explain the facts, apply reasoning, and prove that your mother for the most part still maintains virtue?
A normal man would choose A”
When I see a Free Tibetter standing above righteously yellying “China lie, people die”, I think that all Chinese people there will be holding back a whole stomachful of fire. The “Red Knight's” mistake is that he's not a high-ranking official, but he still dares show such temper.
21. BlazingCD Says:
05月 3rd, 2008 at 8:53 pm
其实，这个事件本身肯定没有问题，抓是绝对应该抓的
但是问题在于，中国人在国外犯事，肯定被抓，没有问题；而老外在中国犯事，无论大小，往往被淡化处理，甚至不处理，还封锁新闻等等，这又是为什么呢？那这样的国家，又值得去爱吗？
Where the problem lies, is that when Chinese people break the law overseas, they get arrested, and that's fine. But when laowais in China break the law, no matter how small or severe it is, it always gets handled discreetly, or not at all, and then the news gets cut or whatever. And why is that? Is a country like this really worth loving?
And the final comment on He Caitou's post at time of posting:
35. Bill Says:
05月 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
Did anybody see the Olympic flag in these 奥运火炬 torch runs ? Is this a torch run about the Olympic Games or about China being the biggest and meanest ?