In spite of the occupants’ outcry, about 1000 security guards and 20 policemen escorting two diggers intruded into a commodity housing district named Li Shui Jing Yuan in Chongqing, the largest of China's four provincial-level municipalities, to forcibly carried out the developer's reconstruction plan which was officially supported by the local government, causing a serious bloodshed conflict. Some residents recorded the whole event and exposed it on some popular Chinese BBSs, trying to call the attention of the public to the vicious incident which just occurred on April Fool's Day.
The copy of the occupant's report on ifeng.com:
作者:浪子-- 发表于 2008-4-2 11:19
2008年4月1日上午9:00左右,共有约1000余名身穿保安制服和20余名未佩戴警号但身着警服的一干人员,大摇大摆强行进入小区,在小区篮球场周围搭起简易围墙,并站成一排,挡住了小区各个出口,阻止业主通过。紧接着两辆大型黄色挖掘机迅速撞破了小区围墙,开进了小区篮球场开始疯狂挖掘,不到1小时,篮球场周边的树木遭连根拔起,篮球场设施和周遭围墙完全毁损,小区的美丽的一角瞬间沦为一片废墟。由于是工作日,小区只有少数老人在家,目睹这前所未见的惊人一幕,惊骇之余只有暗自垂泪。有年轻女业主一名上午10:00左右开车回到小区,路过野蛮施工场地,刚想询问,便被上述人员强行拖出车外、抓住头发、劈头盖脸一顿毒打,随即便被拖上了一辆警车带离了现场。
当晚20:00左右,又有约40名身着警服的人员闯入小区,见人就打,扬言要给小区业主一些教训,接连打伤了5人,并抓走了3人。5位受伤的业主头面部和身体均有不同程度的挫伤,特别头面部伤口流血不止,被紧急送往医院救治.小区有位女性业主刚才在维权时被车撞伤,躺在地上,车主对伤者不闻不问,却蛮横地想打我们的其他业主,站在一旁的警察们却无动于衷,打110现在已没有任何作用,根本不出警,我们的业主一个接一个地受伤,被抓的业主也音信全无,丽水人现在只有靠自己,靠大家精诚团结才能保护自己的家园,保护自己的合法权益!才能不会让丽水人再受伤!
从事情发生至今,我们一直想取得媒体的支持,把整个事情摊在阳光底下。然而,在联系了重庆日报、重庆时报、重庆地产杂志、重庆市电视台等多家媒体后,要么得到的回音是:上面有规定,这事不能报,要么根本就杳无音讯。只有一家门户网站记者前来采访,并把采访的事实制作成了一部约7分钟的短片发布在互联网上。
小区的业主通过市长公开电话和市长空开信箱发送信息,想把事实向政府部门陈述,然而,有如石沉大海,根本就没有回音。
今天由于事出紧急,小区业主急拨110求救,110答复:开发商是在执行政府的命令。
我们不相信,我们已经安居了4年的家,会在一个上午就被人用推土机肆无忌惮地挖得满目疮痍、围墙尽毁;我们不相信,警察也会同开发商的打手站在一起,毒打手无寸铁而且完全无辜的百姓;我们不相信,身在一个民主法制的国家,守法公民居然连自身的合法财产都无法守护,仅凭政府官员的一纸批文、一笔签字就可以毫不费力的拿走!我们不相信,今天的我们还能相信谁……?
Author:Idler-- Posted on 2008-4-2 11:19
About 9:00a.m. on April 1st, 2008, there were approximately 1000 men dressed in the security guard uniforms and 20 policemen without wearing the number badges that made a forcible entry into the residential quarter, setting up temporary fences, lining up and blocking exits to prevented the residents passing through. Close behind were two large yellow diggers which immediately crushed the enclosing walls of the residential quarter and broke into the basketball court to start crazy digging. Less than 1 hour, the trees around the court were uprooted while all the basketball facilities and the walls around were totally destroyed. Part of the beautiful residential quarter was instantly falling into ruin.
.
Since it was the workday, only a few old residents staying at home witnessed the awfully startling scenes; besides astonishment, they could only suffer quietly. A young lady living in the residential quarter passed the barbarous construction site as she drove home at 10:00 a.m.. She was forcibly pulled out of the car, grabbed by the hair and received savage beating from those security guards when she just wanted to ask for some information. Then the lady was taken away by a police car.
.
In addition, 40 staff dressed in police uniforms broke into the quarter at about 20:00p.m. and beat anyone they met, threatening to give the occupants of the quarter a lesson. As a result, 5 people got wounded and another 3 were arrested. With different bruises on the body, especially the injuries to the face and head, which were bleeding badly, the 5 injured people were rushed to the hospital. Another female occupant was run down by a car just now when she protested to safeguard the rights. The driver not only left the injured lady on the road, but also intended to hurt other residents while the policemen was just standing nearby, showing no emotion. We called 110(the emergency telephone number), but they would not step in to stop the violence. We are being hurt one by one and still haven't received any news from the arrested neighbors. Now Li Shui People can only depend on ourselves; only unity in good faith can protect our home and legitimate rights and interests, and prevent us from harming again!
.
We have been trying to get the media's support since the incident happened, hoping that the whole thing can be widely exposed to the public. However, after contacting with Chongqing Daily, Chongqing Times, Chongqing Real Estate and Chongqing TV station, the answers were either “the authorities have ordered no one can report this” or simply no reply at all. Only one reporter from a portal website came to cover the events and make the gathering material a 7-minute short video and publish it on the Internet.
.
The occupants of the quarter tried to report the truth to the government through the mayor's public telephone and mail box, but it's just like a stone dropped into the sea, no response at all.
.
Because it's an emergency, the occupants immediately dial 110 to ask for help, but the 110 replied: the developer is executing the government's order.
.
We can't believe, our cozy home where we have been living for 4 years can be brazenly spoiled by the diggers over one morning, leaving a trail of destruction and completely destroyed walls; we can't believe, the policemen could stand with the developer's goons, cruelly beating the unarmed and totally innocent residents; we can't believe, in a democratic country under the rule of law, the law-abiding citizens even can't protect their own legitimate property, which can be handily snatched away by an official document! We can't believe, whom we can still believe in…?
The intentional violence reported by the occupants living in Li Shui Residential quarter was promptly spread among the netizens and almost all the people were greatly shocked by the bloody scenes. Nevertheless, such negative influence which were obviously derogate from the harmonious principles, were subsequently restricted by the Internet regulators. Many BBSs canceled all the posts related to the reports about Li Shui Residential quarter or turned down new comments on the events so that the relevant posts could be rapidly out of the first page, and the only video report made by the mentioned professional journalist was removed, either. (In fact, the journalist only published the video in a personal blog) Even so, the people living in or near Li Shui residential quarter still persisted in publishing information on the situation through some relatively freer sites like ifeng, mop and daqi.com.
Part of the continuous coverage on ifeng.com:
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-2 23:59
今天(4月2日)白天又有几个业主被抓,而且是刑警,想给业主安上袭警的罪名.昨晚的冲突就是这伙强盗设置的圈套,他们是想把业主与开发商之间冲突转变成业主与警察之间的,从而找借口抓人镇压,以掩盖官商勾结的内幕.当时发生冲突的时候明明只有业主与开发商的保安(其实就是打手),何来的公务人员?而且就算马上给这些打手换上警服(他们上次就干过),可怎么业主受伤的照片有,而现场那些狂照相的公务人员(只准他们照相,业主照相一律要收缴,不从就要被打被抓,这些照片就可看出拍摄的艰难)却没有拍到一张所谓"公务人员"受伤的照片,连医院的照片都没有?连证据都没有就来抓人,在直辖市竟会发生这等无法无天之事,真是黑暗。
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-2 23:59
Today(April 2) several other people are arrested by the criminal policemen who apparently planed to pin the crime of assaulting police officer on our occupants. The conflict last night is just a put-up job made by those muggers; they want to provoke the conflict between the occupants and police, so that they can find excuse to crackdown the protest to cover the inside stories that the officials are conspiring with the developer. Clearly, the occupants only had a clash with developer's security guards(thugs in fact); when did the officials engage? Even if they let those thugs put on the police uniforms (they had done it last time), why are there only pictures of the injured occupants? Why don't those officials present at that time take any pictures of the so called wounded “public servants”, even not in the hospital?(only the government officials are allowed to take pictures. Any photos taken by the residents are forced to be confiscated and anyone refuse to do so will be beaten or arrested. You may directly see how hard to take pictures through those photos above) The authorities can arrest people without any evidence; how did such lawless thing happen in a municipality? How dark it is!
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-3 11:30
现在连在受伤业主就医的医院(重庆医科大学附属医院)都有便衣和开发商的打手监视,去看望受伤都要冒被打被抓的危险,连送医疗费去都很困难.
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-3 11:30
Now even the hospital(the Affiliated Hospital, Chongqing Medical University)where the injured occupants receive treatment is under surveillance of the plainclothes police and developer's thugs. People who go to visit the injured neighbors may also be arrested or beaten. It's even hard to send money for the injuries’ medical fees.
作者:走走看看1 发表于 2008-4-3 17:20
重庆丽水菁苑事件最新进展20080403
1.关于伤者:从事件发生以来,小区被打伤的业主很多,包括很多年轻女性。有少数业主伤情较重,已经送往了重庆医科大学第一附属医院急诊科。据悉目前还有5人在院,他们当中2名头部外伤(皮肤撕裂及脑震荡),1名颅脑硬膜外血肿,2名胸壁外伤。据称上面打了招呼,只要不出现病情加重危及生命的,决不允许办理住院手续,只能放在急诊科留观。另有当晚自发集合来看望伤者的小区业主也遭到监控在急诊科的警察的毒打,并被强行带走了数人。由于无法探视,目前伤者情况未知。2.关于警察和保安:自4月1日以来,每天从上午8:30到晚上22:00左右,都会有超过200人、身着警服的警员和约300人、身着保安制服的保安人员,以及数十辆警车黑压压集结在丽水菁苑小区后门施工工地一带,手拿防暴盾、皮鞭和警棍,场面颇为壮观!而且每晚都有一辆警车和少量警员通宵值班。据参与警员讲,他们并非谢家湾街道警察,而是从九龙坡各个片区召集而来的,保安是从保安公司请的,值班采取轮班制。至于来此的目的“自己也不清楚,好像主要是震慑业主以免妨碍开发商施工”。当问及他们对此事件有何看法时,回答“只知道是开发商要占用别人的绿地用来盖房子,绿地哪里有商品房赚钱?我们只是按照上面命令做事”。路人都可以看到,因为小区已经没有敢于主动站出来的业主,绝大部分警员表情都非常漠然,甚至有些无聊,坐着或是站着闲聊,部分警员正在警车内打扑克牌娱乐。
3.关于抓走的业主代表:从4月1日发生冲突至今,已有近20多名业主被刑警带走传唤。已知的有杨姓老先生、冉姓男青年、刘姓男青年、王姓女士等等。据某位业主透露,家人在被带走时自己只在电话里听到“家里有人闯进来了……”就再也没有说话,只得赶紧赶回小区调出监控录像,方知家人已经被一群人秘密抓走,手机再也无法打通,通宵都没有任何消息。直至今日上午,一户业主通过多方关系才从九龙坡区看守所得到消息:家人因为妨碍执行公务而被刑事拘留,让家人带生活用品过去但不让见面,不让打电话,还要拘留多久不清楚。更多的业主还在等待失踪者的消息。
4.关于丽水菁苑小区:自4月1日后,业主不能去关心探望受伤的邻居,一个又一个的业主被抓……据悉一些前期参与维权的业主们都害怕开发商报复,不敢回家过夜了……晚上有三组安置在高处的高亮度探照灯,明晃晃直射小区内部,有如纳粹的集中营。
Author:Walk and see1 Posted on 2008-4-3 17:20
The latest information of the Chongqing Li Shui Jing Yuan event 20080403
1. About the injuries: Since the event happened, many occupants have been beaten, including a number of young ladies. Some people who are seriously hurt have been sent to the emergency room of Affiliated Hospital, Chongqing Medical University. It's learned that there are still 5 people receiving treatment there; 2 of them is with head injuries(skin avulsion and cerebral concussion), 1 with hematoma outside the dura mater and the other 2 with trauma of chest wall. Allegedly the authorities have issued orders on the sly that the hospital can only leave the injured occupants in the emergency room and no one should hospitalize them unless they are in danger of losing their life. Besides, the occupants who spontaneously went to visit the injuries on that night were also clobbered by the monitoring policemen and some of them were forcibly taken away. Because it's not allowed to visit the injured occupants, their conditions are still unclear.
.
2. About the police and security guards: Since April 1, everyday from 8:30a.m. to 22:00 p.m., there will be about 300 security guards and more than 200 policemen with riot shields, whips, batons and a dozen of police cars concentrating at the back gate of Li Shui Jing Yuan residential quarter where the construction site is located and every night there is a police car and some policemen patrolling around the quarter. According to the police officers involved, they are actually not working this area(Xiejiawan Avenue), but brought up from different parts of Jiulongpo District; and the security guards working by shifts are employed from the security company. As to why they are summoned here, the police themselves “are also not very clear. the task seems to be facing the occupants down so that the developer can build construction without any hindrance.” When we asked their thoughts on the matter, the police said, “just know the developer is going to occupy others’ green area to build houses. The commodity house is much more lucrative than the green area, isn't it? We are just at the beck and call of the authorities.” Obviously, because no occupant dare step forward to protest again, most of the policemen look very indifferent, even a little bored, chatting with each other or playing cards in the cars.
.
3. About the arrested occupants: Since the conflict in April 1, more than 20 occupants have been arrested or cited by the police. They are old Mr. Yang, Mr. Ran, Mr. Liu, Ms. Wang and so on. One of the occupants revealed, while his family was being seized he only heard “Someone's breaking in…” on the phone and then not a word was spoken, so he hastened back to the residential quarter to check the Monitoring videos, finding his family had been secretly taken away by a group of people; and over the whole night, he couldn't get through to any of his family's cellphone. Until this morning, one of the occupants through many connections finally learned something from the detention house of Jiulongpo District: His family were arrested for obstructing the officials in the course of their duty. The occupant was allowed to bring some daily necessities to his family without meeting and calling them. No one knows how long the custody will last. Many more occupants are still waiting for the news from the missing persons.
.
4. About Li Shui Jing Yuan Residential Quarter: Since April 1, occupants are not allowed to visit the injured neighbors while more and more people are arrested…it's said afraid of the developer's retaliation, some occupants who stood forward to protect the rights during the early period dare not stay over at home… at night three searchlights set on the heights throw out powerful beams over the residential quarter, which makes the district like a Nazi concentration camp.
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-3 20:01
现场场面
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-3 20:01
on the scene
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-3 20:03
现场场面2
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-3 20:01
on the scene 2
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-3 20:06
现场场面3
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-3 20:06
on the scene 3
作者:qq822 发表于 2008-4-3 20:06
现场场面4
Author:qq822 Posted on 2008-4-3 20:06
on the scene 4
作者:致命一招 发表于 2008-4-4 12:00
4.1回放:小区内拉起警戒线,业主不能进入
Author:A stroke that causes death Posted on 2008-4-4 12:00
Review of 4.1:the security cordon is put in the residential quarter, preventing any occupants from entering.
作者:致命一招 发表于 2008-4-4 12:59
4.1回放:庞大的保安队伍要吃饭了
Author:A stroke that causes death Posted on 2008-4-4 12:59
Review of 4.1: The large hoards of security guards are going to have lunch.
作者:致命一招 发表于 2008-4-4 13:14
4.1回放:撤出的保安来到小区外的大街上,部分已领到饭(白饭盒)
Author:A stroke that causes death Posted on 2008-4-4 13:14
Review of 4.1: The security guards pull out to the road outside the residential quarter while part of them have gotten the meals(white lunch box).
作者:致命一招 发表于 2008-4-4 13:22
4.1回放:撤出的保安穿过大街向小区后门方向聚集
Author:A stroke that causes death Posted on 2008-4-4 13:22
Review of 4.1: The security guards pulled out cross the road, marching toward the back gate of the residential quarter.
作者:陈冠希和女伴 发表于 2008-4-7 15:31
看看探照灯!
Author:Edison Chen and his female companion Posted on 2008-4-7 15:31
Look at the searchlight!
37 comments
Eminent Domain law (as well as abuse) happens in US too, but you don’t see people fighting with the police do you?
Why don’t these people go to court, instead of disobeying police order?
Police all over the world WILL employ overwhelming force if their authority is challanged.
Meng, your post precisely describes the irresponsibility of New Media. Here’s what a poster said in the thread you refered to:
事件真相:丽水菁苑规划红线是98年就划的,一直未变。07年7月,施工单位依法拆出临时围墙,因发生意外,被政府制止。之后业主上诉告规划局,通过法院一审和二审,业主败诉。08年1月开始,业委会、业主代表与开发商、政府通过几轮艰苦谈判,形成了一个《和解协议》(见搜房-业主论坛),因少部分业主认为业委会被收买,或认为要的不够,或其他目的,要求业委会下台。2008年4月1日,施工单位依法拆除临时围墙,晚上8点左右,十余人手持凶器,推倒围墙,冲进工地要打民工、搞破坏,和执行公务的人员发生对立,双方均受伤。目前执行公务的人员有3人重伤,还躺在医院里。
What don’t you translate this? There’s another side to this story as it appears. Who the heck would dispatch that many people, just to evict a few old ladies?
GV’s readership aren’t all idiots.
Meng, had you bothered to look at this story a little closer, you would’ve noticed there’s much more to it:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=%E4%B8%BD%E6%B0%B4%E8%8F%81%E8%8B%91+%E8%A7%84%E5%88%92+%E7%BA%A2%E7%BA%BF&btnG=Search
– The reason why Li Shui Ching Wan Development(丽水菁苑 规划) was ‘red lined/condemned'(红线) by the government.
– The owners were not suprised with bulldozers one night. The case over illegal building, urban density, safety, owner’s objection have had plenty of time in the courts, even gone thru appeal:
http://209.85.207.104/search?q=cache:MPk2ZGluBxUJ:cq.focus.cn/msgview/40226/128412722.html+%E4%B8%BD%E6%B0%B4%E8%8F%81%E8%8B%91+%E8%A7%84%E5%88%92+%E7%BA%A2%E7%BA%BF&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
– After the verdicts and settlements, minority owners still did not want to vacate, so they instigated trouble by hiring 10 thugs with knife to attack the construction workers.
Thus, arriving to what you saw. To blindly say “evil communist unleash 1000 police onto helpless old ladies” is propaganda, not journalism.
April 10, 2008
Dorje Shugden Society Sues Dalia lama for violations of the religious and speech of Tibetan Monks to be heard in Delhi High Court.
The Dalia lama has historically used any means available to control all of the five schools of Mahayana Buddhism.
The Dalia lamas have historically supported the use of slaves and indentured servants to support the monastic system he devised after killing his main rival Dragpa Gyaltsen around 1652.
The PRC liberated the common people of Tibet from his society of slaves. China has made vast improvement over the last 50 years that cannot be equaled in our modern societies.
The Dalia lama suppresses any lineage or individuals that have any differing opinion than his own by any force he has available. He has never been in support of any democratic system in his or his predecessors tenures.
He does not respect our ideals and principles of equality as will be shown as the Indian Court system unveils his gross violations of others personal freedom over the next few months.
Kundeling Rimpoche, is a citizen of
India and a practicing Buddhist, who worships the deity, Dorje Shugden,
and is aggrieved by the attempts of the Respondent No.s 2 and 4 to
demonise, denigrate and besmirch Lord Dorje Shugden.. The Kundeling
Rimpoche is a reincarnate Lama, and the current Kundeling Rimpoche is
the 13th re-incarnation. The first Kundeling Rimpoche was a
contemporary of the 1st Dalai Lama. The Kundeling Rimpoche believes in
the freedom of worship as guaranteed by the Indian Constitution, and is
opposed to the ban on the worship of Dorje Shugden, as being illegal and
unconsitutional. The rights of the Petitioner No. 2, as enshrined in
and guaranteed by the Constitution, are adversely affected by the acts
and utterances of the Responden
The Kundeling Rimpoche believes in
the freedom of worship as guaranteed by the Indian Constitution, and is
opposed to the ban on the worship of Dorje Shugden, as being illegal and
unconsitutional. The rights of the Petitioner No. 2, as enshrined in
and guaranteed by the Constitution, are adversely affected by the acts
and utterances of the Respondent No.s 3 and 4”
I fail to understand how one month the Dalia lama is throwing a 350 year old lineage out of the Tibetan Buddhism and the next he is inciting rioting and causing more deaths among Tibetans. Why does the world not care to see that the Chinese liberated Tibetans from the servitude of a medieval society that fed on the backs of slaves,indentured servitude, poverty, illiteracy under the authority of anything other than a democratic government and he continues to be anything other than a democratic leader. I see that he steps all over the principles laid down by the founding fathers of American Bill Of Rights and ignores his duplicity with giggles. Because even he is amazed as to how blind they are to his totalitarian potentate practices in the world and goes on with the charade. Why did Free Tibet Radio announce the location fo the Panchen lama in Lhasa. They could have easily smuggled the Panchen lama out of Tibet. Instead they betrayed him to the Chinese in a matter of hours. Why did he throw out the monks and then harangue the Dorje Shugden monks, nuns out after 350 years ? Religious Freedom, Freedom of Speech are principles he only gives lip service to freedom as he steals others freedom by a simple few words from his mouth. He is not a Buddha. He teaches violence, not dharma.
Now the Delhi High Court is hearing a writ on his activities of religious persecution at this writing.
It is not surprising that the Dalia lama’s clique of rich actors choose to attempt to ruin one of the few events that the world celebrates in concord together, the individual spirit’s power to unite us with their victories. We share with enthusiasm and bask in the light of their achievements. The Olympics began in the cradle of western democracy principles and ideals. Tibetan never experienced any thing remotely resembling democracy under the 14 Dalia lamas over the last 350 years. The Dalia lineage devised a slave, serf medieval class structure that rode on the backs of the Tibetan people for far too long. He called in the Mongolian calvary to force all the different school under his control by force.
It was Radio Free Tibet,that announced the location of the recently reincarnation of the Panchen lama in 1991. The Chinese authorities picked him up in a matter of hours.
The Panchen lama is of equal authority as DL.
It was the PRC that liberated the people of Tibet. This Dalia lama is no different now after 49 years, than his predecessors.
Only last month before he incited the rioting in Tibet.
The Dalia lama threw out a 350 year old respected order of the The Tibetan Mahayana Gulug lineage of Dorje Shugden into the streets of India. Thousands of the clergy are now confronted by Tibetan Vigilante goons that stated they will harass them out of the Tibetan Colonies in India.
Why?
He wears two mantles of authority that tread daily on our Founding Father’s principles of equality and freedom of speech and religion.
He does not adhere to our Bill Of Rights.
Nor would he know what to do with our rights inside his government in exile.
The western news reporting is as blind to the history of the Dalia lama as are the Free Tibet people are. Free to go back to a free Tibet that never existed except as a medieval time warp in a despot’s mind.
Democracy is not the Free Tibet the Dalia lama strives to emulate.
He is free to glory in his own emulation of himself.
Not the values of our Founding Fathers belief in equality.
To Liu,
I had seen your textual material when I firstly checked the relevant post on ifeng.com, but since no pictures and other eyewitness could prove what you said, so I didn’t rashly quote the words you mentioned.
http://bbs.ifeng.com/fhbbs/viewthread.php?tid=3102750&extra=page%3D1&page=2
And this long post (with pictures) published in Tianya.com also prevented me from quoting the single textual material you mentioned ,which was really lonely and unpopular in the thread you referred to:
http://bbs.city.tianya.cn/new/TianyaCity/content.asp?idWriter=0&Key=0&idItem=45&idArticle=768195
Besides, GVO is not a simple translation system, we can only quote some of the mainstream opinions of the netizens, especially those which are deliberately canceled and blocked in some websites.
In addition, this post is mainly covering the bloodshed events on April 1, so I can’t just leave the bloody pictures there and only quote your weak textual material. If you can fully prove your “truth” in ifeng.com or other site where the Li Shui occupants are gathering, I may be very pleased to quote your words in next post.
“GV’s readership aren’t all idiots.”
Good point, sir!
The local Chinese government is very corrupt, especially in the countryside. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is some sort of land grab by a relative of some high ranking official. On the other hand, if the residents did attack the migrant workers than they deserve to be beaten in return.
On a side note, I did not know that Godwin’s law could be apply to the Chinese as well..
@Thomas Canada,
U have some very interesting postings. I hope u can post them on threads related to Tibet or Dalai Lama so that more people can get to read them. Best Rgds.