Serbia: Bloggers Discuss Kosovo Independence
Kosovo's parliament passed the declaration of Kosovo‘s independence on Feb. 17. This decision came as a consequence of unsuccessful direct negotiations between Serbia and Kosovo, which lasted for the past few years.
During Milosevic's regime, Albanian ethnic group was clearly expressing the desire to separate from Serbia. Albanians who live in Kosovo felt that basic human rights were endangered there because that NATO forces were bombing Serbia over 70 days in 1999.
Adopting the declaration immediately provoked many Serbs to organize mass protests in Belgrade and several other Serbian cities.
Dejan Stankovic, Serbian blogger, on his B92 blog (SRP) expressed his feeling regarding the vandalism in Belgrade on Feb 17:
Prime Minister Vojislav Kostunica charged the U.S. President and his European followers for creating the false country Kosovo.
Serbia shall never recognize the independence of Kosovo.
Bombs are laid in the foundation of the false country, Prime Minister marked.
And the culmination: “A McDonald's restaurant in Terazije (Belgrade's street) was demolished.”
As wife divorces her husband, he decides to lose the dignity and humiliates himself.
I was ashamed of the smashing.
Dejan Jovic, a fellow B92 blogger, considers that Kosovo will never be independent and this situation is not a permanent solution. He wrote on Feb 17:
[…] If it happens, however, that some countries recognize Kosovo independence, I fear it will just lead to new problems, not to a permanent solution. Why am I so pessimistic?
Firstly, it is obvious that Serbia will not recognize Kosovo's independence. Serbia will treat Kosovo as its own territory. There is a broad political consensus about it among almost all parties. […]
[…] This situation will produce new political conflict with countries that have recognized the independence of Kosovo. […]
[…] Secondly, Kosovo issue is now a big problem even for Europe that agreed (did it agree?) to be a guarantor of public order and peace on that territory. At the same time, some countries, members of the EU, will not recognize Kosovo's independence and the question is who and how will make decisions about this mission in the name of Europe. […]
[…] Thirdly, if Republika Srpska tries to do what Kosovo has done (and decides to block to the state institutions), this will create a new crisis in Bosnia and Herzegovina. If Russia, in that case, supports Republika Srpska, there'll be a new political conflict between Russia and the U.S. The Kosovo issue will be supplemented with the new Bosnia issue. That would mean no stability of Bosnia and canceling of all that was done so far. […]
On his B92 blog (SRP), Marko Jevtic invited Serbia's public to boycott Slovenia's shopping centers in Serbia. He wrote on Feb 18:
An e-mail, which was created by an intelligent person, has been circulating around the internet this days:
Slovenia hasn't yet decided officially about recognizing Kosovo's independence. Slovenia's government clearly wants to do that but Slovenia's business people are not happy because of their big investments in Serbia and a possible reaction of the Serbian public. Help business people to persuade Slovenia's government that it is not valuable to disturb the relationships with Serbia and make the investment risks for the sake of unnecessary recognizing of independence of Kosovo. We shall do the best if we demonstrate a decisiveness and begin a boycott of Slovenian merchandise and companies such as Mercator and Merkur. That would be a support for Slovenia's business people to resist their government. To accomplish this, don't go to any of Slovenia's shopping malls on Feb. 19 and 20. The goal of the boycott is to change the anti-Serbian politics of Slovenia's government, not to disturb the relationships between the two countries. And Slovenia's business people are strong enough to change the politics of their government, if they are motivated. So: motivate them!
And, of course, send this email to everyone you know. […]
Dejan Ristac, a B92 blogger, on Feb. 17, wrote ironically about Serbia's refusal to accept this situation:
[…] [Tennis player Novak], forget others Grand Slams, don't play tennis at the heart of the ecil until they stop dancing over Kosovo. […]
A few days ago, Maruska commented at one of the blogs and recommended:
[…] I have added a petition against Kosovo's independence to this web site:
45 comments
Italy a world power?! that’s a first.
their government collapsed 2 months ago.
hahahahaaahahahahahahahahahah. TIM can you please show some mercy to Justin?
Breaking new!!
LOL I think he is getting better… He “almost” got me
Look at his reply:
“Italy a world power?! that’s a first.
their government collapsed 2 months ago”
Like Serbians lasted longer …
Justin is too easy… Lets wait few more years and see when european education will kick in, if at all.
Tim
u ppl have no clue what ur talking about srbs were real soldiers they fought for kosovo years ago and we haven’t stopped since, OUR history is true and it shows that KOSOVO IS SERBIA’S…
KOSOVO JE SRCE SRBIJE NEKA ZNA CITAV SVET…
SRBIJO STA JE TVOJE TI POVRATI RECI GLASNO CELOM SVETU KO SMO STA SMO I STA RADIMO!!!
NEDAJ TE KOSOVO… DONT LET KOSOVO GO!!!
Jelena,
Kosovo is gone for good. Real soldiers don’t commit war crimes and don’t hide after commiting them as Ratko Mladic & company did. You should blame your “real soldiers” for loosing Kosovo, not anyone else.
This reflects a test attempt on my part to get views posted at another GV thread. These repeated attempts have failed as one sided distortions are levied against me.
Philip Thompson’s comments are unsubstantiated and broad babble.
Marko Attila Hoare’s faith in kangaroo court antics reveal a flawed advocacy. Years ago, the UN had a resolution linking Zionism to racism. It was an “international” document. Does Hoare agree with that one? The point being that the “international” tag isn’t the end all for determining accuracy and virtue to a given set of issues. All of us haven’t always agreed to what a given international body has determined. A number of legal scholars and astute academics have credibly revealed the faulty manner of the ICTY. Hoare’s ongoing denial of Bosnian Muslim nationalist wrongdoing is in line with his ongoing display of deceit.
I’m considerably more objective than Hoare. This includes what I’ve said at this thread. On the other hand, he distorts what others besides myself have said.
Among the issues, is a fully confirmed review, revealing the Bosnian Civil War deaths at Srebrenica in terms of the ethnic breakdown of those killed and how they were killed (whether by summary execution, collateral damage, or as armed combatants). In that area, the stated Serb deaths have ranged in the hundreds to over 3,000. The former can be considered more believable than the latter. The stated 8,000 Muslims killed in Srebrenica during the war hasn’t clearly confirmed a breakdown on how they were killed (once again: whether by summary execution, collateral damage, or as armed combatants).
Along with some others, I wasn’t the one with the “poor grasp” of total Bosnian Civil War casualties. Hoare talks about “lies.” How about the “lies” regarding the overly bloated figures of 200,000 or more killed during the entire Bosnian Civil War and rape claims in the tens of thousands? His underhanded acknowledgement of this (at his blog) second guesses the now generally accepted 100,000 Bosnian Civil War casualty figure because of what he calls undocumented war related starvation and disease fatalities caused by the war. Hoare shows no conclusive evidence to support that suggestion. Instead, he brings up other conflicts where such war related deaths have been evident. It’s not evident relative to Bosnia. The civil war related to Biafra clearly included massive death by starvation. Likewise, wars fought in tropical jungle like conditions have led to mass deaths caused by diseases. All this isn’t evident vis-à-vis the Bosnian Civil War.
My comments about Alija Izetbegovic are more accurate than Hoare’s comments about Draza Miahailovic (reference Izetbegovic’s past in the below link to this note).
Hoare’s portrayal of the USSR in the time shortly before 1941 is in line with his skewed way of distorting the past and present.
The West’s selling out of Czechoslovakia to Hitler, Poland and Hungary in 1938 made it easier for the Nazis to attack the USSR.
In point of fact, the USSR offered the West a joint alliance against the dismemberment of Czechoslovakia. This offer was rejected. The West was no doubt hoping that the Nazis would just stay East. Recall Truman’s wish to see both regimes bleeding each other to a pulp.
All this is said with the understanding and revulsion that Stalin’s regime was brutish. It nevertheless had a reasonable basis for making its own deal with the Nazis. One that was encouraged by how the West chose to address the Czechoslovak matter in 1938.
Considering her fascist display in this discussion, Maja/Mayya is being quite bizarre in wrongly accusing me of such manner.
She was the one who brought up Russia. I appropriately replied to her comments.
Serbianna is far more objective than the Srebrenica Genocide Blog (SGB) and Greater Surbiton (GS). The latter two only post views in line with their overly one sided and often times faulty perspectives. Serbianna posts and links articles with views different from Serbianna’s contributors. Unlike the SGB and GS, I acknowledge Serb wrongdoing in a way that they don’t acknowledge Bosnian Muslim nationalist wrongs.
Maja/Mayya is quite a flake. On the one hand, she earlier acknowledged Bosnian Muslim nationalist propaganda efforts. On the other hand, she’s mute about going after such efforts as displayed at this thread.
Abdic is by no means perfect. The same holds true of Izetbegovic, whose 1970 Islamic Declaration and WW II ties I don’t appear to have distorted:
http://antiwar.com/malic/?articleid=1382
Fact based opinions citing factual instances. One can find plenty of other instances in well founded support of the above link.
In comparison to Abdic, what major Bosnian Serb leaders backed Izetbegovic during the Bosnian Civil War?
Overall, many Bosnian Croats opposed the Izetbegovic side during the war. This included instances of opposing him in conjunction with Abdic and-or the Serbs. This Bosnian Croat stance only changed after influential forces in the West gave them a carrot to do so. This quite likely included a green light for Operation Storm. In addition, the Croats are said to have skimmed Iranian arms deliveries to Izetbegovic’s side upon delivery into Croatia.
You are making a desperate plea out of it, well done! But you are lieing and trying to manipulate the facts.
Albanians NEVER fought Jihad, or “in the name of Allah”. Albanians NEVER identified their struggle as a religious one.
Serbs claim something of a “christian civilization” that is somehow underthreat. No, “christian civilizations” would never slaughter thousands of innocents in Bosnia and Kosovo, “christian civilizations” would never displaced millions of people, “christian civilizations” would never commit ethnic cleansing, and last but not least “christian civilizations” would never wage war!
So take your disgusting propaganda somewhere else! KOSOVO IS FREE AND DEMOCRATIC as it should be. Serbia will eventually turn into a SHIT-HOLE as it deserves to be.
Next….VOJVODINA!
Learn the other side of the story here…. http://youtube.com/watch?v=7nepY-77ckQ
Wow. So many intelligent posts here. Kosovo is free and democratic. Really? When you reduce other ethnic groups to a margin of statistical error that is democracy? Killing children while they are bathing by the river, blowing up buses full of civilians, abducting people, burning churches, that is democracy? Kosovo is free? With an American army base (let me rephrase this, a foreign army base) on its territory, and an economy depending solely on foreign donations… No, wait, “Kosova”‘s economy depends on drug and human trafficking and other criminal actions. Wow. Democracy indeed. Now, those propaganda stories about the monasteries in Kosovo and Metohija, that they were built by Albanians, that’s not history, that’s a lie, a deliberate lie aimed at extermination of Serbian population in Kosovo, it’s pure genocide, when you even try to make it look like there was never a single Serb in Kosovo. Someone mentioned that Albanians are dominant in Kosovo because Serbian ethnic cleansing failed. Erm, if there ever was any ethnic cleansing over the Albanian population, I think the numbers would be the other way round. People left Kosovo because of the terror by Albanians who were terrorizing other ethnical groups by any means necessary, forcing them to move out, or bying their homes for huge money they acquired from drug trafficking. Kosovo is not a free and democratic society and I daresay it never will be. And oh, there’s this rule about hate speech out here, I guess some people such as Tim (Tim USA) failed to consider that. And also that stuff bluerose799 wrote about some poor german Luftwaffe pilot who was massacred along with his family… Did anyone mention Auschwitz? Dahau? 20 million dead Soviet citizens (just to mention those who suffered the most)? How did the German forces treat others back then? In WWII Albania was on the Axis side, and Kosovo was taken away from the occupied Yugoslavia and annexed to Albania, which was back then under Fascist rule. Let’s all remember of the crimes Albanian people commited back then, just for starters. And spare a thought for Enver Hoxha, a true democrat and a great leader of the Albanian people, a man that was a bigger dictator than Milosevic, hell, not too different from Kim Il-Sung. All in all, those arguments used by people who are pro-“Kosova” is just plain gibberish. Please get a life and cut it out with all the propaganda, start telling the truth. Please.
Oyvind:
You just proved that stupidity has no borders.
It is unfortunate that people like you have such a narrow mind, and have no touch to the reality.
I must admit that your long stupid post rather than pointless(I say pointless as there are many pointless post here) has no contributions to a discussion:
I tell you why:
First of all you’re trying to cover all aspects of live from the Serbian civilization( which by the way is too recent, even my grampa remembers not even close to the Albania Illiria etc..) Then you go ahead to the Nazi Germany, Communist Albania Enver Hoxha with not a real connection besides the real stupidity of yours.
Now, as far as ethnic cleansing I’m sure you know it Serbian forces committed that not only in Kosovo, but Bosnia, and Croatian to a greater extend.
It is amassing how Serbian media painted a picture of how the Serbs were victimised, well what do you expect after killing of thousands of innocent people are expect to be welcomed back to the place where people lost everything? Come on get a grip.
There are loses on both sides and Innocent people have died, however the Serbs should nothing to say as they started the wars they got what they deserve.
They have to options:
1. Keep denying they war crimes and ally with the corrupt, bankrupt and communist Russia
or
2. Admit to the crimes committed by Serbian forces denounce them, and apologize to all the people, countries for all the pain and suffering they caused and ask for their forgiveness. A true and honest apology and work together with all the counties to set a strong partnership in all aspect of live and with time get back the people trust
Move closer to Europe NOT away from it, Allying with Russians its not the answer.
Last but not least find the criminals,
( I would say hang, or execute them) just as Germany did after the WWII that you mentioned on your post Nazi killed 20 Mill Russian ( Americans were killed too) so you have no compassion for German killed, exact the same will have to apply to the Serbins who committed crimes which were nothing better than the Nazis.
Speaking of Germany, the Germans admitted to their guild, they haunted were criminals punished them to the maximum, Officially Apologized to the word made damage reparations to other countries, and to date have excel relationship with Israel.
Germany have even build Jewish Memorials in honor of those killed in Holocaust.
They have tried at least, and Serbian government whether the Democratic Pro-Western, or Nationalist have NEVER admitted crimes Serbian army had done.
What they done, have given free pass to the wanted criminals to roam around Serbia.
As far as Enver Hoxha is concern he is nothing more than a disgrace to Albanian history, however he never invaded other countries, and ethnic cleansing like the Miloshevich.
You have just wasted space and time on this post, some have posted plain propaganda which makes me laugh sometimes, however on your post there in pure stupidity and nothing further from the truth.
My suggestion to you, read a lot of history, many newspaper not just Serbian and Russians,
If you can;t read there are plenty of bocks with pictures out there. Just get educated and the most important GET A LIFE!
or just walk to a pet shelter and adopt a pet, do something useful with you life other than being stupid.
“You just proved that stupidity has no borders.”
My IQ is 131 (Mensa testing), that hardly qualifies as stupid
“It is unfortunate that people like you have such a narrow mind, and have no touch to the reality.”
You are narrow-minded because you just stick to the stories of Christiane Amanpour and people like her, the truth is a bit different
“I must admit that your long stupid post rather than pointless(I say pointless as there are many pointless post here) has no contributions to a discussion:”
Yes it has because I answered to stuff other people said that isn’t true.
I tell you why:
“First of all you’re trying to cover all aspects of live from the Serbian civilization( which by the way is too recent, even my grampa remembers not even close to the Albania Illiria etc..) Then you go ahead to the Nazi Germany, Communist Albania Enver Hoxha with not a real connection besides the real stupidity of yours.”
Since your English is not too good, I’ll presume that you said that I didn’t mention stuff that was happening during the Roman period. * Talking about Nazis and all that is connected to some other posts, do make an effort to read them before calling me stupid (IQ 131)
“Now, as far as ethnic cleansing I’m sure you know it Serbian forces committed that not only in Kosovo, but Bosnia, and Croatian to a greater extend.”
I didn’t say the Serbian forces didn’t commit war crimes and ethnic clensing, nor you will ever hear me saying that but remember 400.000 Serbs thrown out of Croatia, Naser Oric doing his rampage around Srebrenica (Yes, Serbs were murdered there too, it’s a fact!)
“It is amassing how Serbian media painted a picture of how the Serbs were victimised, well what do you expect after killing of thousands of innocent people are expect to be welcomed back to the place where people lost everything? Come on get a grip.”
It is also amazing how the Western media painted ALL Serbs as monsters and butchers (we were no worse than any other side in the conflicts during the 1990s), and this about getting a grip I don’t understand, since I keep telling that EVERYONE suffered in the wars.
“There are loses on both sides and Innocent people have died, however the Serbs should nothing to say as they started the wars they got what they deserve.”
True about both sides, but, remember, it takes two to make war, HDZ in Croatia, Izetbegovic in Bosnia, KLA, don’t tell me they weren’t responsible for the hostilities, it all happened almost simultaneously
They have to options:
1. Keep denying they war crimes and ally with the corrupt, bankrupt and communist Russia
Who said anything about aligning with Russia? Just another great power that pursues its own interests, no different than the USA
or
2. Admit to the crimes committed by Serbian forces denounce them, and apologize to all the people, countries for all the pain and suffering they caused and ask for their forgiveness. A true and honest apology and work together with all the counties to set a strong partnership in all aspect of live and with time get back the people trust
We admitted, we apologized, we asked for forgiveness on numerous occasions and those were all honest apologies with the best interest in mind of peaceful coexistence, because Serbia won’t prosper until everything comes to normal after all those wars. Yet, here’s an example, when our president apologized for the massacre in Srebrenica, there were voices from the Muslim side that Serbs should be exterminated from the face of the Earth. Not quite ready to accept an apology, are they?
“Move closer to Europe NOT away from it, Allying with Russians its not the answer.”
Of course we are moving towards Europe, negotiating day and night with the EU!
Last but not least find the criminals,
( I would say hang, or execute them) just as Germany did after the WWII that you mentioned on your post Nazi killed 20 Mill Russian ( Americans were killed too) so you have no compassion for German killed, exact the same will have to apply to the Serbins who committed crimes which were nothing better than the Nazis.
Americans were killed too, yes. But I only mentioned those who suffered the most, and you’ll admit that 20 million is bigger than 500.000 or so Americans. I didn’t say that I had no compassion for the INNOCENT German nationals, I pointed out that someone said in their post that Slavic monsters killed poor Germans who did nothing wrong (do you see any logic in that statement? I don’t.)
Serbian crimes in the wars during the 1990s were awful, but other sides commited similar atrocities themselves, not to mention Croats or Albanians during WWII in Yugoslavia
“Speaking of Germany, the Germans admitted to their guild, they haunted were criminals punished them to the maximum, Officially Apologized to the word made damage reparations to other countries, and to date have excel relationship with Israel.
Germany have even build Jewish Memorials in honor of those killed in Holocaust.”
The Serbian government apprehended all but two war criminals that are/were wanted by the Hague tribunal and we prosecuted many others and 99% of them were convicted to long imprisonment, something no one else did in the region. It took more than 30 years for Israel to renew contacts with the West Germany, Serbia is willing to have very close relations with all of the neighbouring countries, however, the other countries are not just as willing.
“They have tried at least, and Serbian government whether the Democratic Pro-Western, or Nationalist have NEVER admitted crimes Serbian army had done.
What they done, have given free pass to the wanted criminals to roam around Serbia.”
Not true, we tried, they don’t listen. Wanted criminals roam everywhere, not just in Serbia.
“As far as Enver Hoxha is concern he is nothing more than a disgrace to Albanian history, however he never invaded other countries, and ethnic cleansing like the Miloshevich.”
Milosevic is a disgrace for Serbia too, bringing us back to the Stone Age. And no, Hoxha didn’t invade anyone because his country was too poor and he was probably too busy terrorizing his own people instead. I mentioned Hoxha because some people here think that Albania was pure gold throughout its existence.
“You have just wasted space and time on this post, some have posted plain propaganda which makes me laugh sometimes, however on your post there in pure stupidity and nothing further from the truth.”
Again, I don’t think my post was stupid nor that I’m stupid, and truth is not black and white, you have to listen to both sides if you want to know the truth>
“My suggestion to you, read a lot of history, many newspaper not just Serbian and Russians,”
I don’t read Russian newspapers because I don’t speak Russian, and I read loads of newspapers in languages I can understand, and I love history as well.
“If you can;t read there are plenty of bocks with pictures out there. Just get educated and the most important GET A LIFE!”
If I can write, I can read as well (talk about low intelligence) and I am an educated man.
“or just walk to a pet shelter and adopt a pet, do something useful with you life other than being stupid.”
I will not even answer to this insult (too childish), it just shows you are too angry to think rationally.
P.S. You said nothing about mafia, you must’ve missed it:D