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China: India

Been a busy week for Chinese President Hu Jintao, first in Vietnam and now in India, and just what for? asks Hexun blogumnist Liu Dingcai:

胡哥访印度可以学什么

What can big brother Hu learn in India?

中国国家主席胡锦涛11月20日抵达印度首都新德里,开始对印度进行国事访问;21日胡锦涛在新德里海德拉巴宫同印度总理曼莫汉&S226;辛格举行会谈,双方就发展中印战略合作伙伴关系达成重要共识。(据《人民日报》)

China's national chairman Hu Jintao arrived in the Indian capitol New Delhi on November 20 to commence the visit dealing with affairs between the two countries. On the 21st Hu Jintao met with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan at the Hyderabad Palace in New Delhi where the two sides held discussions on the development of cooperation strategy, reaching an important consensus on partnership relations. (according to The People's Daily)

时不我待,不进则退。学习使人进步。中国有越来越迫切的理由向印度学习。学什么呢?

The world doesn't revolve around us and to hold back now would be to our loss. China has increasingly urgent reasons to learn from India. But learn what?

学习经济体制改革的经验,学习教育体制改革的成功,学习医疗体制改革的做法……不少专家在这方面有论述。

From their experience in economic reform, from their success in reform of the education system, from their approach to reform of the health care system……more than a few pundits have been discussing this.

我认为,中国同时要向印度学习政治体制改革的经验。因为只有深化政治体制改革,推进民主法治,才能解除政治专制对经济、文化、教育等方面的束缚和羁绊,才能使经济体制改革能以及金融、教育、文化体制改革的成果得到巩固和进一步发展。

The way I see it, China also needs to be learning from India's experiences in political system reform. Because only with an intense reform of the political system and a push for democracy and rule of law can the binds the political system places on economics, culture and education be cast away, and achievements in reform of economic, financial, education and cultural systems attain consolidated and further development.

印度是目前世界上人口最多的民主国家,印度大选的选民人数高达六亿七千万之多。在印度这样一个第三世界国家,民主制度能够得到保留本身就是值得庆祝的事。印度的民主尽管还不够完善,进步慢了一点,也走了一些弯路,但这些弯路属于技术问题,是可以纠正的,事实上也正在有效纠正中。这正说明民主具有的内在纠错能力以及不二过的能力。印度的民主政治一直在推动着经济的飞速发展、科学技术的不断创新、服务产业的蓬勃壮大、人民生活的日益改善。

India has the highest population of all democratic countries and its number of voters in main elections amounts to over 670 million. That a democratic system can be maintained in a third world country like India is worth celebrating in itself. Although India's democracy isn't perfect, progress is slow, and has come across setbacks, these setbacks are technical matters and can be fixed. In fact they are being fixed as we speak. This goes to show that democracy has the ability to fix its own internal problems, as well as the ability to avoid recurrences. India's democratic politics have always been pushing the economy's rapid development and incessant scientific innovation, the strengthening of the flourishing service sector and the improvements of people's lives.

MSN Spaces blogger LCY Northboy starts off expanding on a Reuters news report of Hu's visit—

路透社:胡锦涛不会在国土问题上向印度退让
胡锦涛这次对印度的访问是十年来中国国家元首对印度进行的第一次正式访问。上一次访问是1996年11月,前中国国家主席江泽民在中印建交后以中国国家元首身份首次访印。
路透社在报导中说,胡锦涛这次访问不可能像上次江泽民访问印度时那样取得引人注目的成果。江泽民和印度政府正式签署了一个缓解中国和印度之间沿喜马拉雅边境的紧张局势的协议–《关于在中印边境实际控制线地区军事领域建立信任措施的协定》。
中国和印度曾在1962年因边界争端爆发了一场边界战争,战后遗留下来的边界争端问题至今未能取得突破性进展。

Reuters: Hu Jintao won't budge on the national territory issue
Hu Jintao's current visit trip to India is the first official visit by a Chinese head of state in over ten years. The last time was in November 1996 when former Chinese national Chairman Jiang Zemin made the visit as head of state to establish China-India relations. Reuters reports say that Hu Jintao will not be able to achieve as much eye-catching results as when Jiang Zemin visited, when Jiang Zemin and the Indian government officially reached an agreement to the nervous situation over the Himalayan border region between China and India. A battle broke out between China and India in 1962 over border claims, leaving behind a disagreement which to this day has yet to see any breakthrough developments.

—then breaks down the issues they'll be facing down over, along with brief background. Just how does China plan to deal with the border issue?

西藏问题

Tibet issue

西藏问题是中印之间另一个潜在的不安定因素。
星期一,一千多名藏人在印度首都新德里举行示威活动,高喊反对中国的口号,要求结束汉人对西藏的统治。西藏青年大会的一位领导人说,他们强烈抗议胡锦涛访问印度是因为当时担任西藏自治区党委书记的胡锦涛对1989年当局武力镇压西藏和平示威负有责任。

The Tibet issue is a hidden unstable element in China-India relations. On Monday, over one thousand Tibetans held a protest in the Indian capitol Delhi, screaming slogans opposing China, demanding an end to Han political rule over Tibet. One leader from Tibetan Youth says the reason they strongly protest Hu Jintao's visit to India is because to his authorization of military force to suppress peaceful Tibetan demonstrations in 1989 when Hu was the Party Committee Secretary for Tibetan Autonomous Region.

领土争端

Territorial disputes

中印边界争端在胡锦涛访问前夕重新升温。中国驻印度大使孙玉玺上星期在回答有关阿鲁纳恰尔邦的归属问题时说,中国认为,那一地区完全属于中国。针对孙玉玺的说法,印度国防部长慕克吉宣称,印度东北部的阿鲁纳恰尔邦为印度领土。他说,那个地区是印度不可分割的一部份。此外,印度还说,中国仍然控制着印度克什米尔邦沿山区边境的大片印度领土。阿鲁纳恰尔邦的归属问题也反映在两国分别印制的地图上。在中国印制的地图上,西藏南部有一大片地区只标志寥寥无几的城镇地名,然而,这块面积上相当于三个台湾的土地只在中国的地图上属于中国。换一张印度地图,那片地区就是印度的阿鲁纳恰尔邦。在1962年中印的边界战争中,中国军队实际上已经夺回了这片土地。然而,正当中国军队取得重大胜利的时候,中国政府突然宣布单方面无条件撤军。历史学家至今仍然对当时中国领导人毛泽东和周恩来为何突然宣布撤军的意图讨论不休。据中国媒体报导,当时中国军队接到的命令不仅是放弃全部收复的失地,撤回到麦克马洪线,还要从麦克马洪线再后撤20公里,与印军脱离接触,结果,战败的印军不但轻易返回原来控制的地区,又趁虚而入,继续向北推进,建哨所,修工事,反而多占了上千平方公里的土地。 1987年2月,印度政府将实际占据的9万平方公里的在中印传统边界线中国一侧的土地全部划为印度领土,并不顾中国政府的抗议成立了阿鲁纳恰尔邦。中国政府始终没有予以承认。这就是中国驻印度大使和印度外长发生口水战的由来。

Prior to Hu Jintao's visit, the territory dispute between China and India began to warm up again. Chinese ambassador to India Sun Yuxi, in answering questions regarding jurisdiction over Arunachal Pradesh said that in China's view, that region completely belongs to China.
Taking issue with Sun Yuxi's response, Indian Foreign Minister Mukherjee proclaimed Arunachal Pradesh, in India's northeast, to be Indian territory, saying the region is an inseparable part of India. India then went on to say that China still controls the Kashmir region, also a large piece of Indian territory.
The question over jurisdiction over Arunachal Pradesh is also reflected in the lines on maps separating the two countries. On Chinese maps, the Southern part of Tibet only shows the names of a few sparse cities and villages, but this piece of land, equivalent in size to three Taiwans, only belongs to China on Chinese maps. On an Indian map, that region is known as Arunachal Pradesh.
In the China-India war of 1962, the Chinese army actually did recapture this piece of land. But, just when the Chinese army was enjoying large victories, the Chinese government suddenly announced a unilateral and unconditional withdrawal. Historians to this day have not stopped debating the intent of the leaders of China at the time, Mao Zedong and Zhou Enlai.
According to Chinese media at the time, the Chinese army received orders not only to abandon the whole of the recovered lost land and retreat to the MacMahon Line, but also to retreat to twenty kilometers behind it and break off contact with the Indian forces. In the end, not only did the losing India side easily recover their originally-occupied region, they took advantage of the situation and begain pushing North, establishing posts and repairing fortifications, eventually occupying thousands of square kilometers or land.
In February 1987, the Indian government took ninety-thousand square kilometers of the traditional border region between China and India which they then occupied to fully become Indian territory and, ignoring protests from the Chinese government, established Arunachal Pradesh, which ever since China has never recognized. This is the origin to the saliva war between the Chinese ambassador to India and the Indian Foreign Minister.

学者:敏感话题

Scholars: Sensitive topics

中国实行市场化改革以来,共产主义价值观念正逐渐被爱国主义和民族主义所取代。很多海外学者指出,极端民族主义是一把双刃剑,这把火处理不好也会烧到自己身上。领土问题就是一个非常敏感的话题。
1999年12月9日和10日,前中国国家主席江泽民在北京与来访的俄罗斯总统叶利钦签定了《中华人民共和国政府和俄罗斯联邦政府关于中俄国界线东西两段的叙述议定书》。然而,中国媒体没有对这项很多中国人关心的关于领土的条约进行详细的报导。1999年12月11日,《人民日报》第一版中关于这个条约只有一个一百字的短讯,其原因就是为了防止激起中国民众在领土问题上的民族主义情绪。然而,这一条约却在有新闻自由的海外激起强烈的反响。海外中文媒体报导说,这一条约签订之后,海参崴、伯力、尼布楚、庙街、外兴安岭、库页岛、江东六十四屯等这些地名已经成为每一个中国人心中永远的伤痛和屈辱。

Since China began implementing market reforms, Communist ideology has gradually been replaced by patriotism and nationalism. Many overseas scholars point out that extreme nationalism is a double-edged sword, fire which if not played with carefully can lead to severe burns. The territory issue is thus an extremely sensitive topic. Over December 9 and 10, 1999, when former Chinese Chairman Jiang Zemin and the then visiting Russian president Yeltsin signed the China and Russian governments’ agreement on two segments of the East-West border between China and Russia, there were no detailed reports on this subject followed so closely by so many people. On November 11, 1999, the first section of The People's Daily only had a short one hundred-word report on the treaty, the reason being to prevent agitating the people's nationalistic emotions over territorial issues. But, an intense reaction was provoked when this treaty was reported overseas, where the media is free. Overseas Chinese media reported saying that after this treaty was signed, the names places located on the Russian side of the border had now become symbols of eternal pain and humiliation in the hearts of all Chinese.

观察家:访问不会解决领土问题

Pundits: The visit won't resolve the territorial issues

观察家认为,这次胡锦涛访印显然无法通过谈判解决关于阿鲁纳恰尔邦的归属问题。印度想要胡锦涛像江泽民那样在国土问题上做出重大让步、让这块土地永远划归印度、同时还要中国交出在克什米尔地区控制的所谓印度领土,这些只不过是一厢情愿的想法。
分析人士说,实际上,两国政治家都已经做出过沙盘推演。在领土问题上,中印两国都无法小看对方的军事实力和政治实力,靠武力解决领土争端对双方政府来说都是不可取的,而通过外交谈判解决更是一个旷日持久的过程,不可能经过一两轮磋商就能够达成。
不过,印度国防部长慕克吉表示,印度和中国在领土问题上有不同的观点,并不妨碍两国之间进行贸易和经济方面的合作。一些中国问题专家认为,中方目前强调的也是和印度发展经贸关系,进行务实合作。

Observers feel that Hu Jintao's trip to India has shown an inability to resolve the issue of jurisdiction over Arunachal Pradesh through negotiations. India wants Hu Jintao to make big concessions in the territory issue just like Jiang Zemin did, and let this piece of land return to India forever, at the same time wanting China to move out of so-called Indian-controlled territory in the Kashmir region, all of which is wishful thinking.
Analysts say that in fact, politicians in both countries have already tactical evaluations. On the territory issue, neither China or India can underestimate the other's military or political strength, and relying on military force to resolve the territorial dispute wouldn't work for the governments on both sides; relying on diplomatic negotiations to resolve the problem will be a drawn-out process, one that won't see success in just one or two talks.
However, Indian Foreign Minister Mukherjee says that India and China's different views on the territory issue won't hinder trade and economic cooperation between the two countries. Some experts on China feel that the China side's emphasis is also on developing trade relations with India and carrying out concrete cooperation.

And an interesting look at how MSN Spaces blogger Qtwwtzyy's personal experiences have shaped her political views:

昨天的FT头条新闻就是关于胡锦涛访问印度的,报道说虽然中国和印度的经济关系不断增长,中印仍然是疑虑难消。两国领导人的联合声明中称”中印是正在形成的多极化世界秩序中的两个重要国家,两国有足够的空间实现共同发展”。

Yesterday's Financial Times headline was about Hu Jintao's visit to India. The newspaper says that although economic relations between China and India continue to expand, the two countries still harbor uncertainties. Leaders from the two countries in a joint statement said that “China and India are currently becoming two important countries in a multipolarized world, with both countries having sufficient space to realize mutual development.”

这样的文字,看上去特别熟悉,大概又是外交部的同仁们努力奋斗的成果。虽然话讲的很好听,但在边境问题和贸易问题上,这次也没有实现实质性的突破。印度和我们之间的关系,就像其他很多相邻国家的关系一样,属于肯定有矛盾不能不打但又不能大打的类型。

Writing like this I know all too well. I imagine it's the result of the hard work and struggle of the Foreign Ministry's colleagues. It may sound nice, but in regards to the border and trade issues, there haven't been any substantial breakthroughs made in this visit. Our relations with India are the same as they are with many other neighboring countries in that there are conflicts and the need to fight, just not fighting too hard.

个人对印度以及印度人的印象并不是很好,这里面完全没有种族歧视的影子,100%的个人直接体验。

My personal opinion of India and Indians isn't very good. This has absolutely nothing to do with racial discrimination and one hundred percent to do with my personal experience.

第一次接触印度人是在留学的时候。同班就有两个印度同学,都很漂亮,就像宝莱坞的电影明星。本来对她们并没有什么特别的看法,和其他同学一样友善,还常常在一起讨论功课,做做项目什么的。有一次学校有个关于亚洲的演讲,我们都去了。按惯例,主讲人做完报告,有一段时间的 Q&A。让我吃惊的是,一直被我以为很友善的印度同学提出了一个针对中国的问题,大意就是中国目前是世界的焦点,大家都在谈论这个经济稳定高速发展的人口大国。印度目前的发展和中国类似,人口还很有可能超过中国。作为邻国,两者的竞争将是赤裸裸的。对于印度而言,应付中国的最好方法是什么?在专家看来,印度对于中国的优势是什么?

My first time to get to come in contact with Indians was when I was studying abroad. There were two Indians in my class, both very beautiful, just like Bollywood stars. At first I didn't have any special opinions of them, they were just as friendly and nice as my other classmates, often discussing homework together, doing projects and what have you. There was one time when the school had a special talk on Asia and we all went. As is the convention, when the speaker finished, there was a short period for Q&As. What shocked me was when one classmate who I always thought was very friendly put forward one question attacking China, roughly saying that China is now the focus of the world with everyone discussing this economically stable, rapidly developing, highly-populated great country and that India is now developing along the same lines and has a population that might soon overtake China's. As neighboring countries, the competition should be plain for all to see. Speaking for India, what would be the best way to deal with China? As experts see it, what is India's advantage over China?

专家是如何回答的,已经不记得了。但她的问题给我带来的震惊至今记忆犹新。后来想想,也是自己太天真。本来我们就是对手,国家和国家之间只存在利益关系,从来就没有永恒的敌人或朋友,何必大惊小怪?

Just how the speaker answered I don't remember. But her question shocked me so much that I remember it to this day. Later I was thinking, maybe I'm too naive. We were adversaries to begin with; the only thing that exists between two countries are beneficial relationships, there are no eternal enemies or friends, so what's the big deal?

Backing up to China late last month, students at one technical college in East China's Jiangxi province found out from a television show that they wouldn't be getting the four-year university diplomas they had been promised, and some started rioting. There was bloggage here, here and camera footage posted here, but the story didn't hit youtube until a few days later. Video clips of the two thousand-strong team of police and soldiers arriving at the school, moving in, inspecting dorms, chasing students and attacking them here: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7.

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