Israel, Lebanon, Palestine: The road to war
Written byGeorgia Popplewell
“To punish the people of Gaza and Lebanon because their governments haven't figured out how to control these outfits would be a bit like bombing the Vatican as retribution for the violence of the IRA,” writes Trinidad & Tobago blogger Jeremy Taylor, as he weighs in on the situation brewing in the Middle East.
Written byGeorgia Popplewell
71 comments
A few things to think about (no side taken):
– If all the Israeli military (tanks, ammo, planes, soldiers) would
disappear, the arabs countries would invade and exterminate the
entire jewish population followed by a celebration in all the
Arab countries. World’s country leaders would say: “we need to stop
the violence. It is very bad. We call for restraint” – but they
are not going to do anything.
– If all the arab world would lie its arms down and cease violence,
Israel may still steal land from the Palestinians but no killing
will occur.
– Arab countires stated before they want to destroy the state of
Israel and have tried doing so three times: 48, 67, 73.
– All Arab countries in the world are dictatorships, media is
censured, the wealth is owned by very few people, and generally
speaking (not all of them) they treat the women like shit.
– Imagine you’re a US citizen and Mexico wants to get California
back (it was part of Mexico). Obviously the US president would
say no. Solution: Mexico (or sympathetic countries) funds
a guerilla organization which daily fire tens of rockets on San
Diego and Los Angeles. Would you like to sit down and talk
while it rains from above or just wipe the guerilla force
out (which will inevitably result in civilian casulties).
– To all people who think Israel is immoral by killing civilians.
If you bought a car recently or a new TV, ask yourself if you’d
rather spend the money on feeding hungry children in Africa
and to help mothers not to sell their children in order for them
to buy food. Most of us would rather drive a nice car or buy
a TV than helping starved children (myself included).
Conclusion: nobody is standing on higher moral grounds.
End conclusion: it is not about justice and who started. These are nice excuses to have on your side when you’re right. Sad, but true.
I’m an american living in Cairo.. I hear much talk about israel attacking to enforce UN resolution 1559 however i do not see them enforcing resolution 1438 to leave the Guolan heights in Syria. I hear much talk about israel attacking Lebanon in self defense yet not one of the 300 people killed is a hezbolah militant. Israel expects the “uncondotional” release of its 2 soldiers, wat about the thousands of Lebanese and Palestinains prisoners. I think if Israel does not thurlliy reevaluate its policies it will have to learn the hard way that to establish peace ALL sides must compromise!
Yaseen,
I’m an Israeli living in Los Angeles. I totally agree with you that UN resolution is just used as a convenient excuse by the Israeli government.
But it is not unique in that. Governments around the world use resolution s and other agreements as an excuse. I believe Israel knowingly bombed Hezbollah infrastructure (whatever that is) and knew there will be civilian casulties. However, I do believe they try to avoid civilian casulties for the following reasons (and in that order of precedence):
* To avoid international condemnation/pressure
* Killing civilans fuels hate to Israel and strengthens opposing
regimes and organizations
* It is “bad” to kill civilians.
But missiles/bombs/artillery isn’t %100 accurate and there is nothing to do about it. Even Israeli soldiers on regular training basis were killed due to human error from artillery shells.
When Syria had the Golan Heights, their military received orders to shell civilian villages. The Israeli military does not get orders to shell and bomb civilians. In 1978 (I think), terrorist (or anybody who wants to call them freedom fighters) seized tens of high school children and ended up killing more than 20 of them.
Let us imagine for a second that a group of people with whom policy you don’t agree seize a school in the US and kill 20 and more students. What do you think the US will do?
Jonathan,
I agree with the fact that “collateral” damage as they call it(or civilians deaths) is inevitable but what i find troubling is that the out of the 300 deaths 290 are civilians even though israel has one of the most advanced militaries not in the middle east but in the world. On the other hand, hezbollah (or the so called terrorists) with their primitive khatuysha rockets have killed 14 civilians out of the 31 israeli’s killed(statistics from CNN) and have apologized for the killing of the 2 children killed in Nazareth. At the same time on the same day 12 palestinian children were killed in gaza, all with sniper bullets above the waste.. I hardly believe this is collateral damage when a child is shot in the chest with a sniper rifle one must wonder what his orders were?
Yaseen,
First of all, I wouldn’t put much trust in media reports regarding casulties. They are very unreliable – they want to have the highest number for both sides and generally are happy that there is a war somewhere in the world so they can cover it, get more money, and advance their careers. I do agree that there are likely hundreds of casulties in Lebanon. For one, we have no idea how many Hizbellah fighters were hit – absolutely no numbers on that even from the IDF. As I heard, Nasralla apologized for the death of the two children killed – my guess is that he apologized *only* because they are arabs. I don’t think the parents accepted the apology and would rather have their children alive than being shahids, as Nasrallah said they were (if indeed he said that and the media didn’t exaggerate).
As far the the 12 palestinian children, I haven’t heard anything about it but it doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. But I think this is likely to be an exaggeration. And what is a child? 10 year old or 17-19?
As one who has served in a tank in Lebanon, prior to the Israeli withdrawl, I couldn’t believe the funny orders we got for opening fire and the permissions we had to get. Trust me on that – if somebody goes out to the middle of nowhere at 2 o’clock in the morning when it’s raining and knows the IDF is around – he/they aren’t there for picnic.
Yet at times we didn’t get authorization to fire or only fire after we call a high ranking officer by which time these guys were gone.
Also, what is a sniper bullet? How was it established that the children died by a sniper? Why do the palestinian police order civilians not to confront the Israeli army and just do it themselves?
And, if it is such an honor to be a shahid, why aren’t the political leaders sending their sons and daughters to blow themselves out?
P.S.
What do the Israeli military/government hope to accomplish by shooting palestinians civilians and lebanon civilians? International condemnation? The Lebanon PM said Israel must withdraw so he can deploy the army over there – he had years to do so but didn’t (couldn’t).
Noam,
1. you say israel did not fire upon fire trucks. Well today on CNN at 1215 Central Egyptian Time(a news channel which claims to be neutral but cannot heavily criticize israel because of the powerful jewish lobby in the U.S.) it was mentioned that fleeing pick up trucks are being attacked as they migth contain khartuysha rockets.. On the other hand, where is your proof that Hezbollah are stopping citizens from leaving the country????
2. you say Lebanon is in no way innocent and actually deserves this offensive. Tell that to a Laila Hegazy a (12 year old girl who has first degree burns on 30% of her body and has lost her father and 2 of her 3 sisters in israeli air strike) what has she done? what is her crime? you think she actually deserves this?? Hypothetically speaking even if a country has made a mistake israel has no right to punish an entire nation of 5 million because of the decision made by a few men(the government). UN resolution 1559 is a very contraversial one, it states that the Lebanese government must exercise its full soveriegnity over all Lebanese territories. What you fail to see that the Lebanese government is indeed exercising its full soverieignity and that Hezbollah is part of the government with 2 ministers in it.
3. you said it yourself the palestinaians “elected” Hamas. How can it be illegitimate?! Isnt the the definition of desired democracy in the middle east? Hamas is not a terrorist organisation it is the legitimate government of palestine. The people of Palestine made a democratic decision by electing Hamas, they do not care if Hamas is a “sworn emeny of israel” they choose the regime that will run their country the way they want it to be run.
4. I had a quite a laugh about this one(even though it is not a laughing issue) “arrested” what the hell does that mean?! who decided that they should be arrested? Well if it troubles you soo much that the soldiers were kidnapped not arrested consider the 2 israeli soldiers arrested for tresspassing on stolen Lebanese land.
5. I hear the word terrorists thrown around all the time, let me ask you this: wat is your definition of a terrorist? U cannot justify being immoral to your enemy by calling them terrorists. Another thing, the intention of these so called terrorit organizations is not to destroy israel, it is for israel to return to its borders of 67 and return the lands it has stolen and raped for years.
A ground invasion of Lebanon will be a huge mistake. The Lebanese army will intervene and if defeated or weakened syria will intervene and so will Iran. If the U.S. decides to intervene and help israel you can garantee the involvement of Egypt and many arab countries who have the man power the money and the technology to wipe out israel.
A common sense check on some of the info being reported…First of all, in 1890, when Jews were being persecuted in Europe; they fled to Palestine (their homeland for nearly 5000 years). Palestine came under British rule in the 1920s, and subsequently, both groups lobbied the British gov’t for a “country of their own.”
I own a map that dates back to 1904, which shows the boundaries of the region at that time. Guess what! The land the Palestinians claim today, did not belong to them back then. Why is that? The European Jews who immigrated for nearly twenty years at that point built up the region and made it economically beneficial to live there..Then, everyone wanted a piece of the pie and that is why Palestinians started moving ever closer to the Gaza Strip and so on and so forth. To the gentleman that says Israelis encroached upon Palestinian land, you’re 100% wrong. Yes, the Israelis have taken more and more land everytime they’ve won a war, but hey! They only learned from their Imperialist predecessors. For those who say America caused this problem…shame on you! Learn your history. For those who say the Israelis are terrorists…Keep in mind that the best, precision bombers in the world come from Israel. They don’t hit it unless they aim for it. Unfortunately, collateral damage can not always be avoided. I’d be willing to bet my @$$ that their bombs are far more precise and cause less collateral damage than a bunch of Katyusha Rockets (hint, hint…they’re indigenous to Iran and Syria) that are scientifically proven to fall only within a 20km radius of their intended mark. Guess what, the Terrorists don’t care who they hit as long as they kill someone. As for the civilian casualties in Lebanon, Hizballah and Hamas are known terrorist organizations for planting children in their convoys and around their operations to get the “sympathy effect” from the rest of the world. Their headquarters are in Beirut, as CNN reported, wonder why?
My husband is a Russian Jewish immigrant to this country. I can honestly say that the anti-semitism I’ve seen him endure is disgusting! I’m consistently disenchanted and disheartened to hear some of the things said to him b/c Jews are perceived to have started this war in the Middle East. Utterly disgusting. As a Christian, and a person who loves life and her husband, I urge Americans to remember…Jews didn’t bomb us on September 11th..Terrorists did. The people with the same ideology that Israel is combating today.
This website is worth a look.
http://www.jatonyc.org/UNresolutions.html
This article is excellet, you need to put aside 15 minutes to read it.
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v28/n06/mear01_.html
You know why America was attacked, because of jews,,, so please stop saying that America should support isreal because they are both fighting terrorism . I know the ignorant american believes the government’s ridiculous claim that they were attacked because of their freedom . America was attacked and will continue to be attacked because she gives isreal the weapons to murder muslims jews and Christian fundamentalists will not stop until they will bring this world to 3rd world war,,,,and you gotta love this word anti-Semites, in America it’s used by jews as a magic stick, throw this word and get whatever they want